Once again, Bill answers his critics…
by Bill HarrisNovember 21st, 2007
This post will be a quick response to some criticisms and misunderstandings about my last post about The Secret. Then, in a few days, I’ll post something new about levels of cognitive development as outlined by the great Jean Piaget. I think you’ll find this discussion to be particularly interesting.
Okay, onward. Someone posted a comment charging that Ken Wilber’s and my definition of magical thinking is “vague” and “not backed up by concrete examples.” It isn’t vague at all. First of all…
…you can check out Ken’s book, Sex, Ecology, Spirituality, for 51 detailed pages about magical thinking, offering an academically rigorous description accepted by pretty much all developmental psychologists and based on research that has been accepted by the mainstream for at least 70 or 80 years, done by the great Jean Piaget (and others).
I don’t have the time here to go into the details of these 51 pages (plus quite a few pages of end notes), and most of you would not want to delve into this as deeply and in as academic a manner as Ken has done. If you are interested, though, google Jean Piaget, and get a copy of Sex, Ecology, Spirituality and read it (it is a brilliant book, though quite a tome–about 850 pages).
The bottom line is that there is NO QUESTION that 1) all people go through a stage of magical thinking while growing up, 2) that some people, especially if traumatized during this stage, continue to think this way into adulthood, 3) that some societies’ entire center of gravity is at this stage, and that magical thinkers are part of all societies, including those of developed nations, and that 4) that this sort of thinking is definitely less functional and less resourceful than that of later stages.
My next post, which will describe development in what is called the cognitive line, should clear up some of the desire for “more examples.”
I was also asked about the difference between “putting it out to the universe” (which I have labeled as magical thinking) and “focusing your attention on what you want” (which I have strongly advocated). The assumption was that focusing on what you want is magical thinking, too, and that I’m being inconsistent in advocating it while at the same pointing out the drawbacks of magical thinking.
So let me clarify the destinction between the two. Magical thinking, in adults, involves 1) wishing for or believing that the normal laws of nature can be suspended, so that 2) one can get something (generally FOR HIM OR HERSELF, or someone in their immediate group rather than for the good of society as a whole) 3) with little or no effort, or without somehow paying any sort of price or doing something for it (in other words, getting something for nothing).
This way of looking at how to get something in the world is pre-rational, in the sense that it fails to see that to get an effect, there must be a cause–that to get something, you must DO something to get it, and that what you do to get something or create something is subject to the normal laws of physics.
This perspective is also narcissistic in the sense that it wants something for ME–but without actually doing something, paying some sort of price, being of service in some way, etc. It’s the idea that other people, or the universe in general, should provide you with whatever you want, just because you want it (as opposed to you doing something to get it). It’s the idea that you can or should get what you want without taking conventional actions or giving something in return.
In developmental psychology, narcissism doesn’t mean an unhealthy obsession with thinking only about yourself (the common pop psychology view). Narcissism actually means that you can’t think about yourself. The capacity for self-reflexive awarness doesn’t exist yet, so the world is seen as an extension of yourself. Because the distinction between me and not-me is still fuzzy, the narcissist is unable to take the perspective of another person. This makes it seem as if it’s all about them–and that when they put out to the universe a wish or desire it will be (or ought to be) granted. This is how a small child thinks–mommy and daddy will grant my wishes (and I’ll be plenty pissy if they don’t). This is a reasonable perspective for children, but not for adults.
Focusing your attention on what you want, on the other hand, is the first step in a much more mature process of taking action to achieve something in the world. It involves no suspension of the laws of nature, but rather is a cooperation with those laws. And though the outcome might involve ME getting something I want, it’s not totally self-centered because it realizes that 1) I must take action to get what I want (I can’t just wish for it, or assume that the universe is here to give me what I want whether or not I do anything in return), and 2) the action must somehow be of value in some way, or must actually have an effortful, cause and effect connection to what I want.
If I want to be an author, I must learn to write, I must spend time writing, and I must write something people want to read.
To get money, I must provide something to those who are (hopefully) going to give up their money, and it must be something they (not I) believe is at least as valuable as the money.
To get love, the giver of the love must also get something in return–it’s a circle, a relationship, not a one-way street. Yes, I know, real love is freely given, but if you want love and give no love in return, you’re going to have to find someone who is a saint in order to be loved, and most people aren’t saints. As the Beatles said, the love you get is equal to the love you give (or something like that).
To get someone’s time or attention, I must do something that makes the person want to give up that time or attention.
To get a better job, I must look for one, show up for interviews, show the prospective employer how I will benefit him or her, I must have skills that are wanted, and so forth.
Whatever I do must be of value or in some way have a cause and effect relationship to what I want in return. This is basic “Law of Attraction” stuff, and very different than just “putting it out to the universe.” The first involves the Wish Fairy. The second involves you doing something to get what you want.
And, by the way, as a person moves to higher levels of development, one’s focus moves more and more to what can be done for others, rather than what one gets for oneself. To do this, one’s developmental perspective must move to a place where you can take the perspective of other, something magical thinkers have trouble doing. This other-oriented perspective is what I described as being at work in my own life, where my needs are now met to such a high degree that my own needs, while of course important to me, are just no longer what I focus on (you don’t focus on finding food when your stomach is full).
Instead, I focus on meeting your needs. As a result, my needs are automatically met (again, the Law of Attraction at work). Any fear of whether or not my needs will be met is gone, and my focus is now about helping others–which also makes my life very fulfilling. This is the stage Maslow describes as “self-actualization.” In order to reach this stage, other levels of need fulfillment must first be met: physiological needs, safety needs, love/belonging/social needs, esteem needs, cognitive needs, and aesthetic needs. Because these needs are met in my case, I no longer focus on them. I am, however, as a teacher, endeavoring to help people who have not yet been able to handle these lower levels of need fulfillment, and one of the roadblocks to doing so is often magical thinking.
It was also pointed out that I endorse The Sedona Method, which the writer claims to be magical thinking. The Sedona Method, the writer claims, says that “releasing wants” causes the objects of one’s desires to manifest. This is, however, not at all what the Sedona Method says. The Sedona Method is a way of letting go of attachments (or aversions) and the emotions that go with them, and is based on a thinking perspective at the much later Integral or Transcendent level of development. It’s a quick way to get yourself out of what I have often referred to as The Game of Black and White, where the main game rule is “White Must Win.” Your ideas about good and bad, and the emotions that such ideas create are, according to the Sedona Method, illusion, and releasing them leads to freedom.
Hale Dwoskin, the main teacher of the Sedona Method, has never said that releasing is a way to manifest your desires–though he has said that people who release are happier, and ironically such people do tend to get more of whatever they need. Someone who sees the Sedona Method as a way to “get stuff” is looking at it, in fact, from a magical perspective, and then thinking that their projection is intrinsically part of the method, when in fact the magic is coming from them.
In fact, Hale asks people to release not just negative emotions (aversions), but positive ones, too (attachments). I don’t have room here to go into the genius of The Sedona Method, but it’s really just a skillful way to experientially demonstrate a non-dual perspective, based on the same point of view expressed by all enlightened individuals throughout history. Behind the actual methodology, the Sedona Method is based on the point that all ideas about anything–and the emotions generated by those ideas–are illusory, and that when you drop all of this mentally generated conceptual stuff, you see that everything is pure happiness, bliss, and perfection. At some point I will go into this much more deeply. There is, however, nothing magical about it.
Confusing the Sedona Method with magic is a great example of the pre/post fallacy I mentioned in my last post, where post-conventional and preconventional views are confused because both are “not conventional.” However, there is a huge difference between pre- and post-conventional.
I was also asked if I think shamanism is a legitimate pathway to transcendental consciousness, since I have said that magical thinkers want to revive “ancient ways” as a solution to modern problems, and have said that this is not a solution. In fact, I cited this as an example of regressive thinking (see my discussion of the “pre/post fallacy” in my last post). First of all, I didn’t specifically mention shamanism. But for your information, I know several shamans and I participate, actually quite regularly, in several very powerful shamanic practices. I don’t see these practices, though, from a magical perspective, but rather from the perspective I’m currently living from. In fact–and this is really the key to all such questions asked by many of you–everyone sees whatever they are experiencing from whatever perspective they are at.
Shamanism, in general, DOES come from a magical perspective, though it’s very possible that some modern shamans are operating at perspectives beyond preconventional (I know at least one who is). Here is the key: if a person is coming from a preconventional, magical point of view, they will interpret whatever they experience, whatever they see, from that view. If a preconventional shaman drinks Ayahuasca (a powerful plant-based brew that creates mystical experiences), for instance, they will interpret the experiences they have from that perspective, that point of view. If they heal their clients, that healing will be interpreted from that preconventional point of view.
It’s the interpretation that is magical, not whatever they are doing, per se. If a shaman gives someone sacred plants in order to put them in an altered state, their interpretation will be that certain spirits in the plants created the person’s experience (a magical view), whereas I might say that certain chemical substances in the plants created certain profound shifts in consciousness (all of which can be explained in a non-magical way), and that these shifts in awareness are similar to those attained when someone meditates many hours a day for many years.
I was also asked about esp and paranormal abilites. First of all, as another poster said, magician James Randi has a foundation (the James Randi Educational Foundation), one goal of which is to support research into paranormal claims in controlled, scientific experimental conditions. The foundation offers a prize (currently one million dollars) to anyone who can demonstrate paranormal abilities under controlled, scientific conditions. Though the size of the prize has grown over the years, Randi has offered some sort of financial prize since 1964. No one has ever demonstrated anything that allowed them to claim the prize. You can google James Randi, or look him up on Wikipedia to learn more about this.
But let’s say for the sake of argument that there are paranormal abilities out there. Maybe there are, though it’s interesting that no such claims have ever passed the peer-review process (where a study showing such abilities is shown to be repeatable). There are plenty of people claiming that there are studies proving paranormal abilities, but none of them have been accepted by the general scientific community, because they have not been demonstrated to be repeatable (and, many of these studies are clearly ill-formed).
But again, let’s say that paranormal abilities exist. Just as with shamanism, any such abilities will be interpreted from the developmental level of the person who is observing them. A magical thinker will see them as evidence of magic. A conventional thinker will probably think they are bullshit, unless there is some evidence, in which case they will see, or at least begin to look for, a rational explanation. A post-conventional or integral thinker will see these abilities in still other ways (which we don’t have room to go into here). And so forth. Whatever developmental level a person is at, that perspective will determine their interpretation of what they see.
ANYTHING that happens, any experience, anywhere, will be interpreted from the point of view of the interpreter’s perspective (ie, their developmental level). If what people call paranormal abilities exist, they aren’t proof of magic, or of the suspension of the laws of nature, any more than electricity or magnetism or the aurora borealis are evidence of magic. All of these were, at one point, seen as magic (and still are by cultures with a magical center of gravity). Now we know what causes them–and it ain’t magic.
The claim was also made that Ken Wilber is “biased” against earlier levels of development. When people say something like this, it leads me to believe that they either haven’t read him or, if they have, they didn’t understand what they read. Levels of development are perspectives. By definition, a wider, more inclusive perspective sees things more clearly. Such a perspective isn’t better in an “I’m better than you” sense, but it is more resourceful and more complete. It’s a wider view. It takes into account more of the existing interrelationships. This particular writer sets up a straw man (in other words, argues against something I never said) when he says, “…are adults “better” than babies, and if so, should be throw them out?” Neither Ken, nor I, have ever said that someone at a higher level of development is “better,” and no one is saying that a child’s perspective is WRONG. It’s just the perspective they have, given their experience of life, so far. It is, though, less complete, less inclusive, less broad–and less functional.
Neither have Ken nor I said that people at lower levels of development should be “thrown out.” In fact, everyone (as both of us have said many times), starts at square one and must go through each level, in order, just as an embryo must go through certain physiological developmental stages, in order. Many people stop at lower levels of development either because that’s where their culture’s or family’s center of gravity is or because they suffered some sort of trauma which arrests their growth. But because everyone starts at the beginning, there will always be people at every level of development.
We don’t condemn children for being at their particular level of development, but we do help them to move on to the next level when they are ready (which is when the previous level stops working as a way of making sense of their world).
And, as an aside, while someone is at a certain level of development what we’re really hoping for is a healthy manifestation of that level. There are healthy and unhealthy versions of every level of development. Life can fail to work at any developmental level if a person is exhibiting a pathological version of that level. Or it can fail to work because their environment changes and their current level no longer works or makes sense in that environment (for instance, when a young child goes off to school, or an college graduate enters the work force). Either way, something needs to be done either to create a healthy way of being at the current level or, if necessary, to get the person to the next level.
This is, in fact, very much what my work with you is all about. I’m helping you become more functional at your current level, or helping you move to the next level in your growth. The first is called horizontal development, while the latter is called vertical development. Both are valuable (and both are strongly facilitated by Holosync, and by the knowledge products we offer at Centerpointe).
The same writer said that “infantile desires (for security, for stimulation, etc.) are at the root of all adults’ rational thoughts,” and that if we eliminate magical thinking we eliminate everything that’s built upon it, including rational and post rational thought.
First, infantile desires are NOT at the root of all adult thought. Infantile desires are at the root of the thoughts of adults who are at an infantile level of development. Some adults actually have moved on to more mature, more highly developed, ways of being in the world. That’s what development is all about. It’s true that each level builds on those that went before, transcending and including, to use Ken’s terminology. Transcending, though, means that the unworkable aspects of the previous level are transcended, while the parts that are necessary building blocks are included. Belief in magic isn’t a necessary building block, so it is (hopefully) transcended as the move to the next higher level is made.
Consider this in terms of development in the physical world. At some point some amount of time after the Big Bang, atoms developed into molecules. Molecules transcend atoms, in the sense that molecules have attributes atoms do not and cannot have. They also include the atoms as building blocks, but at the same time they have jetisoned some of the ways of being in the world that were common to atoms. Those ways are gone, even though the atoms are still there as parts of the molecule (oxygen in a water molecule does not behave in the same way it did when it was free oxygen).
In the same way, some aspects of how you see the world are building blocks for the next level, the next perspective, but some of what went on at the lower level is lost, gone, ditched. It is transcended by better ways of existing. We don’t need to keep magical thinking in order to develop, so it is (in a healthy person) transcended. Little bits of it remain in the way we cross our fingers or carry a lucky charm for good luck or wish upon a star, but few people really believe that such things actually are the cause of what happens.
Again, I’ve never said that we should get rid of magical thinkers. I didn’t even say that people should necessarily give up that sort of thinking. I said that no one goes to the next developmental stage until the previous stage doesn’t work for them any longer. So, let me be clear here. I am saying–to those who read this and are hoping that some sort of magic, some sort of suspension of the laws of nature, some sort of narcissistic wishing for your needs to be met without you doing anything in return is a good way to succeed in the world–IF you are struggling to get by, if you can’t make enough money, IF you cannot get a fulfulling life going, IF you are frustrated about your ability to create a good relationship, get a good job, make enough money, or in some way are having trouble succeeding in the world…it may very well be that magical thinking isn’t a very resourceful way to be in the world, and you might consider giving it up in favor of a way of being in the world that works better.
So, with that off my chest, with my next post I’m going to go into Piaget and his model of cognitive development (rather than flogging this dead horse any longer). MANY peoples’ comments have argued against things I never said–which is one reason why I’ve ignored most of them–and I suspect that such comments will continue, no matter how careful I am to be clear about what I say. I will strive to be more clear, so as to diminish the possibility that people will misunderstand, but I don’t have room to write a book about each topic, or to cover every possible contingency, exception, or possible misinterpretation.
I hope you’re all finding this interesting and helpful.
Be well.
On a completely different note:
Genpo Roshi (the highest ranking Zen master in the world outside of Japan) and I will be presenting a two-day workshop in Los Angeles on February 9th & 10th. Working with Genpo in person is AMAZING. Though he probably wouldn’t toot his own horn, I can: Genpo is a true enlightened master. At the same time, he’s also a regular person. He’s an American, rides a Harley, drinks beer–and I’ve never met anyone who is so comfortable in his own skin and so naturally embodies what enlightenment is all about.
He’s also an amazing teacher. His Big Mind process is, in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of other people (including Ken Wilber and the incredibly highly evolved people that hang around with him) the biggest innovation in spiritual growth of the last several hundred years. (And that’s saying something.)
Why do I say this? Because this process allows you to directly experience transcendent states of oneness and enlightened awareness that ordinarily take decades of meditation to attain–but in less than three hours! I’ve even seen hardened reform school kids do this process, and in doing it speak from this transcendent state, saying the same things the Buddha said, in the same words. When you go into this state, everything is obvious, and you report the same insights that come with enlightenment–because you’re there. (Admittedly, this is a peak experience of Big Mind, and to fully embody this state you must do some sort of daily practice–such as Holosync–but a peak experience of this sort is REALLY a peak experience!)
Genpo and I share a desire to take what has been esoteric and share it with as many people as possible, so though Genpo still leads some traditional Zen trainings, he’s moving toward teaching to a broader group of people. What we’re doing is taking the essence of the wisdom of enlightenment and presenting it, without any unnecessary cultural trappings, so everyone can benefit from it.
So in this seminar I’ll be providing the context, the explanation. I will be providing the frame that allows you to make sense of the experience, while Genpo will provide the experience.
The Big Mind process does more than show you enlightened states, however. How could there be more than that, you ask? As part of the Big Mind process, Genpo will ask you to speak from certain internal voices, certain aspects of yourself. Speaking from these voices, what a psychologist might call “sub-personalities,” heals any shadow material in these aspects of yourself. This creates huge shifts, huge positive changes. And, quite frankly, I’ve never seen anyone more skillful at working with people than Genpo.
So, I’d like to invite you to be at this workshop. It will be February 9-10 in Los Angeles, and it will be, I promise, a truly life-changing event. Anyone who has been to a Centerpointe retreat knows that my events are life-changing, and I can vouch for the fact that spending two days with Genpo Roshi will give you (and I really mean this) years of growth in one weekend.
To find out how to sign up for a 25% discount, please visit our registration page while your thinking about it by click on the following link.
Register for Big Mind / Big Heart Now!
If this link doesn’t work for some reason, type www.centerpointe.com/bigmind directly into into your browser.
And, after Thanksgiving, I’ll be sharing a new post about levels of cognitive development. This is, I promise, some fascinating stuff.
Be well.
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November 21st, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Look at it this way:
Golden Girls - Rose = magical thinker. Dorothy = realist.
November 21st, 2007 at 7:57 pm
This whole discussion around magical thinking, enlightenment, etc has been fascinating, albeit a little time-consuming. It has left me with a profound respect for Bill and his level of patience with us. Some of the criticism is pretty harsh, but Bill’s replies are eloquent, patient, detailed, and yes, lengthy.
I’m not sure how you find the time, Bill, but I’m guessing that it’s a testament to years of discipline and focus. I look forward to the day that I can reach the same level of development. Thank you for caring enough about us to share your insights.
November 21st, 2007 at 8:15 pm
Bill,
Yours is the most enlightening blog to which I subscribe, and I eagerly wait each post.
Mike
November 21st, 2007 at 9:31 pm
I admire your ability to patiently clarify your points as you do, Bill. I hardly ever write comments in a blog with the goal of proving a point I may have. The resulting struggle, as witnessed here in your blog, is not worth the stress for me. I’m happy to learn the good things I can from anyone such as yourself, no matter the topic, and let the chatter from others slide past my awareness.
But in arguing your points, I have become much clearer myself on what it is you’re trying to say. Sort of like review. Exactly, actually. You tend to pull in so much in an effort to clarify for us that other questions I wasn’t even aware I’d had get answered in the process.
I truly appreciate what it is you do for the world. Your scope of knowledge is hard to fathom!
Take care,
Ken
November 22nd, 2007 at 12:58 am
Great post Bill!
Just to add onto the Sedona Method: I’ve recently read a quote that summarizes brilliant what the Sedona Method is all about (for me at least):
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away”.
Releasing captured in 1 sentence, sometimes life works out so fine! But then again, isn’t it always!
Enjoy and keep up te good posts,
Kurt
November 22nd, 2007 at 4:09 am
Ooh I’m excited I’m excited!! :o) No criticisms here Bill, love the way you think.. it makes sense. Unfortunately won’t be able to make the Big Heart thing-though I AM waiting with bated breath for your next blogs!
Love from Jen in Oz
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:53 am
Bill,
I sense some pain and angst you feel as a result of some reader’s comments who may be simply responding from “where they are” in this moment.
As an aspiring writer myself, my take on their comments is that their comments are simply feedback telling me/you where “some” of them are in terms of their development.
As you have said, there’s nothing wrong with that. We all go through developmental stages.
I love and appreciate that you are obviously so caring and concerned that you communicate clearly and thanks for your extra effort to ensure that. It is beneficial to us all.
Just “release” the angst and keep up your good work.
Warm Regards,
Charles
November 22nd, 2007 at 2:23 pm
Bill,
I would sincerly like to know how a zen monk is ranked. How in the world could you go about ranking something like that? Is it subjective or objective?
To the readers of the blog:
I think Bill is doing a great job. He obviously puts a lot of work into each installment. I think most people are just having a converstion with him. Each turn in the converstation makes each point of view more clear. There is no way he can head off every possible mis-inturpritation of his entries. I hope he does not try.
When I don’t agree with something, I will ask for clearification or simply say to myself, “Hmmm, I don’t agree with that.” or “I don’t agree with the way I am understanding that.” I’ll bet most of us handle things this way.
One of my previous posts might have been viewed as ranting. I did not mean to rant but to explain my point of view which I thought was a bit different from Bill’s. I look back on the way I was pontificating and smile. Now that I have read the subsiquent posts, I realize Bill’s views on magical thinking are even closer to mine than I first thought.
It is interesting to here all your views. It is helpful to me in the continued development of my beliefs.
Thanks,
Mark
November 22nd, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you Bill!
Hope you’ll save this line for a later post:
“A post-conventional or integral thinker will see these abilities in still other ways (which we don’t have room to go into here).”
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:57 am
Bill - you are simply amasing and a real treasure.
Your generosity, patience and time you spend on this blog is very much appreciated. I get so much from what you have to say and from what the responding posters have to say.
The big mind thing sounds very exciting - shame you both are not over here in Australia … or Brisbane to be more precise
November 23rd, 2007 at 1:22 am
Hi Bill,
Cool stuff :O) Cheers for the great blog entry. I really enjoy checking out your blog, fascinating reading!
Thanks again,
David :O)
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Hi Bill
Great response as per….
Again, personally for me, things have happened in my life that have proved beyond my own doubt that there is somthing else out there
For me i think true psychic persons maybe would not take up that guys offer as it mainly comes down to helping people out and what not. To have to act out of greed or to prove a point would kind of go against the grain so to speak?
As for my thinking im still finding it tricky to put a name to but hey im on a road and the road feels good
your blogs are cool and holosync is great
and i am looking for Ken Wilbur books
ta ta for now and take care
November 24th, 2007 at 3:07 am
as far as paranormal abilities…
i don’t think that because no one has claimed the amazing randi’s prize, that disproves the possibility of paranormal abilities… the american military has put decades of very scientific research and use into remote viewing… i don’t think any of them claim 100% success with this paranormal ability (used as another form of intelligence gathering) but if i’m to believe even some of the info i’ll heard or read on it from the the people who originated the program the most adept at this skill have success rates way beyond statistical randomness in scientific double blind studies.
regardless of the scientific prove-ability i agree with you that people will interpret it from they point of view… or should i say level of development ?… but to be accurate i think the scientific method has determined this paranormal ability to be authentic with a handful of trained individuals.
November 24th, 2007 at 4:50 am
Charles,
Bill doesn’t need a therapist and frankly your comments are funky, as though you have insight to what he’s thinking. Your comments come across as extremely condescending. I’m so glad you’re psychic now.
Sheesh.
Thanks for the post Bill…always appreciated.
T
November 24th, 2007 at 5:23 am
Bill
I continue to appreciate your insight, breadth and depth of knowledge and enlightened patience.
I do have to express a longing for the old days of the mindchatter reports and your wide ranging theses on aspects of human development.
The blog seems to be dragged back into your defence and justification against those that do not agree with your opinion, rather than a free form discussion of individual topics.
Whilst I agree with the wish to help people and clarify their questions, you yourself agree that you can only help those that are ready for and accepting of that help. Those who are not ready will simply not accept even the most poetic of arguments.
Please, please, will you return to your old style of teaching, which allows those of us who are happy to listen to your wisdom, and take from it what we are currently ready for, to benefit most from it? You know will never please those who only come to argue, and only encourage goad them with your attention.
Though I understand the need and benefits of changing to a blog format from an internet and search engine perspective, I do so regret that almost inevitably the format tends to degenerate to the level of the lowest denominator unless stringently controlled.
I look forward to the return of your interesting essays.
Peace and Regards
Nigel
November 24th, 2007 at 6:37 am
Bill,
Thanks for this excellent clarification. We really do appreciate the time you take to explain this.
I hate to ask you to have to explain yet more - surely you’ve done enough!- but the Feng Shui question really does remain a problem for me. As one of the guys asked on your previous blog entry , how is that you personally endorse an approach to Feng Shui (was it called Diamond Feng Shui ? )
I’m afraid I struggle with the idea that people can get unexpectedly rich by moving the furniture around. Why would you put your name to something like that? It’s a bit confusing for my poor little head!
ALL THE BEST!
November 24th, 2007 at 7:20 am
I like this latest post. It seems I need to work on transcending my magical thinking. In one paragraph you mentioned the big bang. With that in mind please visit the following two related websites. I think you will find them to be most intriguing.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/
http://www.electric-cosmos.org/index.htm
November 24th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Bill
Totally agree with your points on “magical thinking” but as you also said when talking about the Sedona Method. :
“…releasing is a way to manifest your desires–though he has said that people who release are happier, and ironically such people do tend to get more of whatever they need…”
Maybe there is something there in the part that you said ” Ironically such people do tend to get more of whatever they need…”
Some people will call irony, others luck, others faith, others Law of Attraction”, etc
The Fact is that we currently can not fully explain all the amazing potential that we all have dormant inside of us.
The “experts” in brain research say that we only use 10% of our brain power, there are huge areas that we ALL still do not know how it really works. Even though we create theories, and rationalizations to try to explain it and say that we really understand what we do not know it yet.
Your products are focused in helping develop these areas.
We are (still) pretty much and unfortunately in the infancy of brain research studies.
I agree that sitting down and thinking that your new house will materialize out of thin air is something that we can call magical thinking….
But who knows maybe, just maybe there are things that we have the potential of doing that we are not currently aware of and not knowing that does not necessary mean it does not exist.
Take Care
Neo
November 24th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Thank you Bill for having the patience to do a third post. It gave me a lot of clarity on your discussion for which I appreciate because I WANT to develop…however I am ‘releasing’ (using the Sedona Method)’ my attachment to needing to be at a different level
November 24th, 2007 at 7:54 am
Brilliant. I am delighted to read a blog where someone explains Ken Wilber’s amazing work in clear suscinct terms that I can understand. It is also wonderful how you have used it to help clarify “The Secret” and comment on the very useful Sedona method.
Thank you.
November 24th, 2007 at 8:09 am
I also subscribe to several blogs and newsletters and Bill you say it all so much better. I discovered you on the internet in January of this year. I have been using Holosync since February. My discovery was magic and I am grateful.
I have to say that finding your existence has certainly improved mine.
Keep on keeping on.
Kathy
November 24th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Dear Bill,
Reading your posts brought me great calm. I have sometimes fallen prey to confusing pre- and post-conventional thinking — I think there is a lot of that confusion going around now! Especially since these posts came at a time of chaos for me, I really appreciated the reminder and the clarity.
Keep up the good work!
All the best to you,
Anna
November 24th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Hi Bill,
This post is kind of for anyone with lingering doubts
about the clarity of things that you’ve been blogging
about. It also runs on quite a bit–it’s worth it though.
First off, I have a long way to go in all senses and at
one point I thought I had *it* figured out. Bzzz.
Developmental processes and levels are totally relevant
in my case since I think my experience of 2 things have
put me on another path in life.
When you say that Holosync users *may* have some
upheaval (ROFL), in my case even doing the first level
exactly according to instructions was certainly above
that for me. On the other hand, I have never been able
to shift as a person like I did in that 4-5 months than in
any other traditional training in my life.
The process is a roller coaster and it’s the most interesting
thing I’ve ever experienced if I hadn’t done it for myself to
this point, I’m not sure where I’d currently be.
I think I have a point here…
Ah yes, in your explanation of developmental stages I am
getting a lot more clear on what I believe you meant you
mean by “the map is not the territory”.
So here was the turning point and it is, in part, where I credit
the insight. Part of the observation of what I have created in
my life to this point is akin to seeing where the material (financial)
errors and actions took place. Very useful.
Which led me to research Genpo Roshi thinking that perhaps a
view of what I think I’m looking for would encourage me to get
more clear insight.
For anyone who has the opportunity I came across the Big Mind
process in parts (clearly not the whole thing, or in person) on
YouTube. CHECK it out! Then get to this ‘in person’ event.
I just did the process in part I imagine by following along the
small snippets and I can’t even explain what it was like. As a
matter of fact NOTHING I have ever seen or experienced in my
life was as revealing.
The best part is, I still don’t get it.
Anyway, after writing this essay I just want to pass on the info
about how the synergistic combination of these 2 people can
take you a quantum leap back to where things are at least OK
for you.
My life is currently a mess as I experience it and I’m a novice
IMO, but here is the key thing…
It’s more or less fine with me. There was a time when I thought
the world was coming to an end whenever things appeared against
the way I thought they should. It’s not so bad anymore.
Thanks for the insights Bill. For the rest of you, get to that event.
If I were you and I could go–I wouldn’t hesitate for a nanosecond!
You may just run into yourself there…and you may be shocked like
nothing you have ever experienced to date.
OK, I’m done and I think I’ll make shorter comments in the future.
Peace,
Jay
November 24th, 2007 at 9:28 am
Hi Bill! Your teachings about the different cognitive development levels reminds me of Deepak Chopra’s book “How to Know God” where he speaks about the “7 Levels of God”…perhaps this is his re-interperation of the information you are discussing?
I happened to read this book while I had a friend in my life who was a “fundamental Christian”..pestering me into following his beliefs…and I found it annoying and insulting…something within me wanted to “prove” to him that he was “wrong” about his beliefs…and I had the inclination to just show him this book to “prove” to him that he was “only” on level 1 and that “I” was on a “higher level” than he was! That I would “put him in his place” with this information!
I did NOT show him this book..as I managed to “catch myself” all caught up in my ego..wanting to be “right” at someone else’s expense….it was a “humbling insight” for me to see that I still want to do this at times! So..perhaps we sometimes can use this numbering system the way “I” had wanted to..to show superiority..which is not the way it was meant at all! So..I used Deepak’s information instead to help me deepen my level of “compassion” for the person who was annoying me instead..which I think was much more valuable for me than “feeling right”..by making someone else wrong…(whoops!)
( I still “let go” of him in my life..as I STILL found him annoying…but I did so with more compassion…and less “being right”…and he still does not know about this book! He would only have “argued” with the principles anyway..right? )
Insights and information such as this have great value in understanding how our “minds” work…I think perhaps some of your “critics” may be having trouble with the “numbering system”…in that there may be assumptions that “level 1″ is less “good” than “level 7″..in that most of us..with our egos..like to believe we are “better than some people”..so to see ourselves on the lower levels makes some of us feel as “if we still may have “room to grow”…and I think that may bother “the ego” you know?
I’m sure this has already occured to you though!
The comments you have shared about the questionabilty of “psychic” phenomena being “not yet provable”….I was not aware of…I thought places such as the Menniger Foundation etc. had been doing scientific studies for many years. I see that you also said “These studies were not yet accepted by “standard science”…I never thought to question that.
I have had what I call “psychic” experiences most of my life. And I cannot prove that..nor can I “do it on command”. However….I never attributed this to some “magic process”…nor did I ever feel I was somehow “special”. I assumed if I have this “ability” that so does everyone else..they just may not have known to “try this”. (In fact..when I was a child..I assumed that everyone could also do this too! (My Mother was this way too..and she taught me that “we don’t TALK about that!)
At this stage in my life ..I attribute these “insights or experiences” to the “collective unconscious”…that is available to anyone..potentially…there seems to be much that “modern science” does not know how to “prove” yet…however that does not mean it does not exist…
Again..I am probably saying things you already know about..or have studied from the works of others…so I don’t mean to sound as if I could “know more than you”…because I am certain that I don’t….that is why I think of you as one of my “teachers”…but would some inclusion in the discussion of the collective unconscious…and how we tap into that with meditation..be relevant to the discussion?
If so..would you speak to this a little more..if you want?
I have read that the ancient “masters”…learned things from “direct knowing”…such as the Science of Ayervedic medicine and accupuncture…not from “left-brain” scientific studies…you probably have read all that I have and much more.
Could you speak more about this “direct knowing”..through meditation? Perhaps is has not been “proven yet” with science..but of course it exists…
Your discussion (above) gave me the impression that you were saying that if “science has not proven it”..that it does not exist…and perhaps…probably..I have misunderstood you?
As a seasoned “explorer of inner consciousness”…I am assuming you have direct experience of things “not yet proven”? I’ve read most everything you have ever written and do not recall that you have ever spoken of these things yet. Perhaps I just missed something?
November 24th, 2007 at 9:32 am
These Universal LAWS have always been. And they have always been used in some form or another, for some kind of manifestation that would appear to be magical.
Even now the discoveries of Quantum Physics show the same principle, that all of the matter in the whole Universe appears to have come from nothingness, and that the outcome of Quantum experiments appears to be influenced by expectation.
One thing that I never see mentioned in all of this manifest your dreams spin is that these LAWS can be used rightly and wrongly. Either in accordance to the MASTER PLAN or contrary to the MASTER PLAN. Also that there are other more subtle aspects to these LAWS than first meets the eye for instance Galatians 6 verse 7, or Proverbs 16 verse 25. In other words are you using them for “Universal Purpose” or for selfish ends? This will determine the Souls total experience, in what has to be eventually reaped.
November 24th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Bill,
It’s very rare to encounter someone who writes with such clarity, sincerity, and common sense on important topics. Thanks Bill.
I stated reading Ken Wilber twenty-six years ago, I have been a member of Wilber’s Interal Institute since its inception, and am in my fifteenth year of daily meditation practice. Last year I was introduced to Genpo Roshi through I-I, and I have been doing the Big Mind Process via DVD. Two months ago I was introduced to Holosync and you through I-I, and I am six weeks into the program. The three of you are creating a 21st. framework and practice that makes me hopeful for the future. Please commit to doing a workshop with Genpo Roshi on the mid-point of the east coast: Washington D.C. very soon.
November 24th, 2007 at 10:13 am
Interesting viewpoints and discussion. I suspect there are many things that are, as yet, not scientifically proven.
November 24th, 2007 at 10:16 am
Bill,
I am finding these blogs very interesting and informative. I even find the comments useful as they challenge my beliefs, and I find that when I’m challenged I come out the other end stronger.
I am currently at a level in my own development where my beliefs are consistently and constantly challenged from those around me. This is fine, since I am trying to educate those around me that there is a better way of living, providing them with proof of my own “turn-around”, leading them to readings/seminars and so on so they can read and maybe understand for themselves. I want for others first what I want for myself. I have experienced great and wonderful changes and want everyone else to have it too. The challenge in this is to not force people, only to lead and to understand that their lack of acceptance of it doesn’t make them bad, ignorant nor does it make me crazy (although that has been suggested), it just means that they aren’t ready to accept it and that is fine.
I am continually amazed and humbled by the whole concept of using the Law of Attraction to be open to things coming into my life when I need them or when I’ve asked for them. Stuck on a few points, I asked for clarity and on my own I found myself reading Maslow and Piaget (both of which were studied academically in the past) and linking it to my LOA beliefs. I thought I was being so clever (yes, I know an ego-driven thought, haha). So you can imagine my joy when I read the blog and found Bill referencing these very things.
It’s nice to know this all ISN’T magic.
I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to explain all of this and to point out some of the resistances that people are having. Each blog posts makes things more clear for me, while each comment makes me nod in agreement or to redfine and perhaps recement my own beliefs. I know I’m on the right track, but it never hurts to learn more.
I feel blessed to have discovered the Secret; and more importantly the Masters of the Secret. It has led me down a wonderful path and I’m taking the most awesome journey ever.
Thanks Biill! Keep on keepin’ on!
-Tina
November 24th, 2007 at 10:43 am
I fully take on board what Bill says about magical thinking. The doubt that remains with me arises from the law of manifestation, which says if you believe x will work for you then you will manifest x. If you don’t believe x will work for you then you won’t manifest x. If you substitute ‘magical thinking’ for x, does that mean magical thinking will work for you if you believe it will? It seemed to work for Jesus with the loaves and fishes!
November 24th, 2007 at 10:51 am
Developmental psychology is a theory and not a Universal Law. You’ve done a great service in opening this dialogue through generosity and courage, Bill and for that we are grateful. It’s been simply refreshing and wonderful to read so many thoughtful, un-guru-following responses. One needs, one wants, one visualizes, one creates. Magic gives one hope, from hope springs wanting and from wanting springs a connection with the Universe and magical ideas of expansion. We expand consciousness by moving forward and taking action and manifesting from these magical ideas. The best teachers inspire and give hope, they don’t preach their pretentious early-church, my-way-or-the-highway dogma perception of things, they know that their perceptions will change as they grow. Pre/post, whatever, by the very definition of genius, none of the great minds of the world could be compartmentalized and most show their genius by admitting to a touch of belief in magic (or the unexplained/unknowable). Not even for a second do I think my landing on this blog and feeling compelled to read every last post, was circumstantial and not magical. Thanks again, Bill, for being here and opening up this discussion. It has been purely magical!
November 24th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Bill is the man!!..high 5 to him!
November 24th, 2007 at 11:33 am
Hi Bill,
Thank you for the insightful article! To back you up on The Sedona Method part of your article, here is my personal experience of Releasing on goals with The Sedona Method.
I have the highest regards for The Sedona Method, due to the originator: Lester Levenson. He always emphasised the need to prove things for yourself, instead of accepting anything on hearsay. I’ve been using The Sedona Method for 1,5 years now and I’m still getting new insights and keep on raising in consciousness. Your view about The Sedona Method is correct; there is no “magical way” to manifesting what you want. Releasing your attachments and aversions (which are the 2 components of desire) of your goals might lead to attracting the thing you wanted, but only if it is in harmony with others. In my personal experience, I’ve attracted situations and people by releasing on certain goals, and then acted on those. They always were harmonious and I always provided good service for the people involved. There is no such thing as “something for nothing”. Did I get my share as well? Yes, of course. Did that really matter? No, not really.
Step number one in the Sedona Method is to release for freedom, not for the goal. There is a good reason for that as well. Behind every want that you have is a desire, and that desire is ‘made of’ attachments and aversions. A desire, in short, is lack. Whenever you rid yourself of feelings and thoughts of lack, the more freedom you experience. Whether you achieve your “want” or not, is irrelevant; as long as you achieve that greater freedom. This step really is the basis for The Sedona Method in my opinion. If this step is out of place, you can Release all you want, but it won’t get you anywhere.
Releasing on desire directly is even more effective. However, you’ll need to realize this fully before you’ll ever release directly on desire. This is so because your mind will fight this vehemently. Your ego is tricked into thinking that wanting (desiring = lacking) is the method of going through life, so you’ll need a solid understanding of what desire really is. And the best way to do this is by releasing a lot of your “garbage”, your subconsciously stored beliefs and feelings. Then you’ll experientially know that desire only is a feeling that can be released.
You’ll eventually become other centered in your journey of awareness, once you realize who you (and thus, others) are. Bill was not lying when he said that he doesn’t care about his own needs anymore. This is a natural effect of raising in consciousness. How long does this take? That varies per human being. Lester Levenson made rapid changes in consciousness because his life was at stake in 1952. How much do you want freedom above wanting your desires? That’ll give you an indication.
Love,
Tom
November 24th, 2007 at 11:36 am
In reading your opinions about magical thinking, I must say you haven’t done your homework. Many of us are magical thinkers by heredity…others by race…and the number of people who truly understand what magical thinking is really about…and how it works is growing daily. I am a magical thinker. The people with whom I’m acquainted who are also magical thinkers know nothing comes to us just because we want personal gain. We do count on the Universe to carry our vibrations, however. We do believe there is something greater than ourselves, something which formed this universe to begin with. Yet we do not worship this, Creator for lack of a better term, because we understand that we are all part of it. We live our lives in the same manner as The Secret describes, and, frankly, some of us were a little amused that this big Secret is just now being revealed to the majority as we have always known The Secret.
Frankly, we do not work for personal gain, as you do. At the present time, our desire is to send out Universally intentions that will heal our planet, and that is our main focus.
I wish you deeper insight for what I believe are your true ambitions, which in some ways parallel ours, and hope you center more from your heart than from your mind. I also hope you heal that part of yourself which lashes out defensively in order to maintain the level of leadership in which you view yourself. It’s okay to admit there may be other views which differ from yours, by accepting them as what works for other people. It’s human to be different, but it is Divine to understand that while we are all reaching for the same thing, we can all get there, even though it be through different practices and beliefs.
Blessings.
T. L. Swan
November 24th, 2007 at 11:38 am
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=98637196
Hi Bill,
Above is a link to my MySpace Blog where there is a blog titled, “lets talk about language,” dated 11/8/07. There are some thoughts in there that may be useful to consider when trying to address people misintrepeting or not comprehending the intended meanins of what you write.
I’ve participated in many chat groups where I’ve posted stuff, and there is always someone who doesn’t “get it.” I’ve come to the point of letting that be okay, because they’ve been exposed to the information, and at some point when they are ready to “get it,” they will recall what I wrote and have an Ahaa! moment.
I think it is admirable that you apply efforts to add clarity to the thoughts you’ve presented, and certainly is worthwhile for those who are at a point where they will “get it.” For those who aren’t at that place in their development where they will comprehend it as it was presented to be comprehended, all sort of explainations and attention is necessary for them to get it, and as you’ve said, you don’t have the time to do that for each individual.
In some of your instructional literature you say something to the fact of letting whatever happens be okay, be detached from it as though you are a scientist studying a butterfly or something, and just observe it. I think in this observation process, there may be something about your own experience that you discover about yourself as well.
The world and the people in it, the experiences we have of that all, is a reflection of our own state of being in awareness and we’ve intentionally or unintentionally drawn all of this into our experience for what it can teach us or show us about our own perspective in being. It may therefore seem that an issue that confronts us, such as someone being critical of something we write is about them being critical about what we write, when in fact it is really about our openness to their point of perspective in awareness and being.
Everyone is a wonderful jewel worth treasuring in what they bring to us and how they intentionally, or unknowingly bring us into a more loving and accepting/allowing state of being.
I think there are many more people who “get it” when it comes to what you write, than there are who don’t, so I’d acknowledge that and appreciate that. In so doing, you are likely to find more fulfillment and value realized by those who read what you write.
I appreciate and enjoy reading your blogs.
Thanks for being here, and doing this
Best regards,
Jerry
Oh, by the way, if you by chance have a MySpace page, I would like to include you on my friends list
November 24th, 2007 at 11:59 am
Bill - Thank you for your clarification and clearly stated perspective on magic, pre-conventional and post-conventional stages. I am looking forward to your next posting on Piaget. I will also be most interested when you begin a discussion in regards post-conventional level of development. I see the difference between “magical” thinking and rational thought, but I believe in both. I like the idea of perspective, and getting a wider view.
November 24th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Hi Bill,
Big big Love Fleetwood Mac style!
I totally agree with your take on “magical thinking”. I was inspired by “the Secret” to move in a better direction: it brought a few pieces of the puzzle together for me, from a perspective based on 25+ years of self study. The phases of which are to numorus to mention here, except to say that I’ve gone from my “Stewart Smallie” phase in the 80’s, to the study of epistemology, or “what is thinking?” So I had a boat-load of wonderful painful memories associated with the idea of wishful thinking or “God is taking care of me”, when I first saw the movie.
I think it was Steve Martin’s character in the movie “the Grand Canyon” that said something like: “All of life’s riddles are solved in the movies”. Now I’m open to the idea of “the movies” meaning all of them (especially some of the Monty Python classics) but not any one movie.
As far as I can tell, Ronda Byrne did a great job of making a movie based on who she was and where she was at. I had the chance to talk personally with Bob Proctor about that, and I have no reason to doubt her intentions, or his. But we all know what the road to hell is paved with…:)
My one concern with an anti-magical thinking mindset, is that it seems to create (or attract) some real one sided fundy type cynicism - the opposite of magical thinking - cynical thinking: A natural example of the law of Polarity, for those who have learned about such the hard way. But my experience thus far has shown that the cynics tend to stay in the comfort zone, get stuck in the negative, and settle for “the distorted security in familiar pain”. A phase I see as being addicted to narcissistic “Brain thinking” which in pure reductionist fashion, tends to reduce human existence to the idea that we’re just a higher form of ape, that evolved as part of an unconscious accident - A frozen concept put forth in human words.
I don’t know whats worse, “magical thinking” or “brain thinking”. Both stem from a certain level of awareness.
One can let go of magical thinking, without letting go of the reverent awe of the mysteries of this amazing Life that we’ve been blessed with. Pray and move your feet right?
And oh! how is it that two atoms can effect each other instantly over great distances, and be in two places at the same time? To my knowledge, no one really knows. I think it wise to have reverence for such questions. In fact, living thinking lives in the question.
Bill, you mention the law of cause and effect. For me the “Law of attraction” is also the Law of Vibration” I work with some other universal laws as well: Gender, Polarity, Rythm, Perpetual transmutation of energy, and Relativity. My understanding of which will be tilled under in a few years I’m sure.
I hope there will be a second Secret movie addressing the need to deal with our conditioning, and process of working faithfully on the idea “Know thy Self”.
Warm Regards
Mike Helsher
PS. and I second everything that the thousands of people that have been helped by your Holosync programs, have had to say!
November 24th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Nice article. What about just saying it in simple way? Using mind not being it is the enlightened state. Now as concerning blog Everyone should be thankful for your efforts to make everything clear, Bill. But i suggest not to be pulled into “it”, you know what is meant here. “Adding MORE to ones mind” and “becoming” is 2 psychological aspects which holds people from developping in my opinion.
November 24th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Thankyou Bill,
I’m presently on Holosync Purification level 2, and have recently been realising that the real gift of The Secret is that we GET to put 100% (nothing less will do) into manifesting our own brilliant realities.
Basically, if anyone wants to create the life they’re aching for, theres only one way its going to happen, and thats by individual EFFORT, SELF reliance, taking FULL responsibility, COMPLETELY DISCARDING the victim mentality(you know;poor me the universe should give me something,so I don’t have to COMMIT to MYSELF!) and throwing EVERYTHING you’ve got at YOUR LIFE!
Well , as you are teaching us Bill, those things are actually the FUN things!
Personally I feel the beauty of Holosync is that it transforms procrastination and magical thinking into dynamic self reliant brilliance which facilitates the individual to GO OUT THERE and get EXACTLY what they WANT!
So Guys stop making EXCUSES, stop HIDING from your own LIVES and stop COMPLAINING to Bill, cos whatever he says is RIGHT ON THE MONEY!!
It’s only going to take….EVERYTHING YOU’VE GOT to make your lifeplan succeed and the bonus side effect is that you’ll be so busy CONSCIOUSLY MANIFESTING an awesome reality, you’re gonna forget all about LURKING unconsciously in your SHADOW self and perpetually dreaming up ever new excuses why NOT TO DO IT, and basically being miserable.
My advice is to stick with the program and Bill’s brilliant way of thinking will eventually emerge in your consciousness.
And that my friends is the beginning of FREEDOM!!
November 24th, 2007 at 2:41 pm
I think Sophocles summed it up when he said;
“Heaven never helps the person who will not act”.
November 24th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Dear Mr. Harris,
Thank you for writing this blog! I think I got in on something that you had written from before that many of your readers didn’t understand or misinterrpreted, but I wanted you to know that I admire your stamina and patients with people who don’t quite do enough research on cognitive abilities and judge too quick. You are very enlightening and I very much enjoyed reading this blog. I will certainly look forward to learning more from you on Cognitive Development and hopefully gain a better perspective in order to “pay it forward” to all my family and friends and have a greater utmost respect for your teachings in the future! I hope to one day have the honor of meeting you in person. Unfortunately I don’t get to travel much, but would love to come to California to hear you speak. Best Wishes and Thank you again. Bless you, Diana Ross Weatherford, Texas
November 24th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Bill
After reading all that the one thing that comes to mind is this K.I.S.S.
November 24th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
James Randi as an authority on serious scientific study of the paranormal is an unfortunate choice. He is nothing more than an annoying joke to those engaged in genuine research - a mosquito biting an iron ball. For balance, try googling the US government’s Stargate program.
If I had wanted unequivocal scientific proof before starting the Holosynch program I would have unnecessarily delayed the tremendous benefits I have received from it. Sometimes in life we just have to ’suck it and see.’
November 24th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Dear Bill,
I have been reading your recent blogs with great interest and you have clarified many points for me. Since I have begun to use the Holosync CD’s -and I probably hold the record for getting the most out of all the levels by using them for longer periods of time at each level- I have been really amazed at all the experiences I’ve experienced and the ways that my life has changed. It has been an extroadinary ride and for this I’m very grateful for your creation of the Holosync tools for transformation. Since the beginning of listening to Holosync, the level of my work and my ability to earn money has greatly increased. not only that, my life is completely different, -divorced, financially responsible for myself in all ways, moved thousands of miles, have taken on greater responsibility in my work which is Palliative care for the elderly, feel more compassionate for others and want to be of service in healthy ways, so my life is evidence that somehow by listening to holosync I’ve moved on to other levels and that the upheavels that have come and gone and still come -always lead to something good for myself and others.
I’d like to take the time to thank you for your sincerity and willingness to explain ideas and concepts in your blogs, and also be willing to get raw feedback from us. Big mind sounds wonderful. I wonder if speaking in a voice from that inner state of Big Mind explains the phenonmena of chanelling? its interesting that at that level it clears and integrates shadow material. I’d like to go to LA. There is so much we still do not know, but that understanding will come about with evolution. Brain entrainment seems to be helping mankind move forward in that evolutionary realm, coupled with new theories and understandings of Psychology and Spiritual development. It was explained to me once that Psychic development is on one of the lower rungs of the spiritual tree. Transcendance, Cosmic Awareness and so much more is at the height or top of the spiritual tree. Thanks Bill.
November 24th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
I find Bill’s teachings and the sedona method to be a great combination. Sedona has a spiritual flavour, whereas Bill favours the psychological.
This discussion about ‘magical thinking’ seems to be coming from a ‘conventional level’. It would be interesting to hear the ‘post-conventional’ viewpoint, as a lot of teachers suggest there is more to reality than meets the eye.
There is a great zen quote: Do not seek for the truth, only cease to cherish opinions.
I’m looking forward to the dscussions on cognitive development!
November 24th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
Hello,
A quick note to thank you, Bill, for the evident time and effort you have put into this blog. You are an excellent teacher, articulate and clear, and it’s a pleasure to read your writing.
Now, mind you, I have to say that don’t always WANT to understand what you’re getting at, because after all, I have a certain vested interest in keeping the internal status quo: it’s quite a bit more comfortable for my ego to hold onto my present rationalizations - but sooner or later your words sift down into my consciousness and lo and behold, I find myself saying to myself, “Hmm, I guess Bill was right.” One small step at a time….
Please keep up the great work; your blog is one of the things I most look forward to online!
Kindest regards,
Karma Sue
November 24th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
Hi Bill,
Great post! You are so very adept at presenting ideas and making them crystal clear. Your relating of the current thinking on levels of development and the characteristics of each level is very informative and thought provoking. You are truly a gifted teacher.
One thing that I need a bit of clarity on is where does someone stop just expressing where they are coming from and how they see what you are saying and where do they start becoming a critic? It seemed many people posted their thoughts and opinions on your previous blogs as a response to the ideas you have presented and not to criticize you personally. I know that was my intent and it was certainly not meant to be a personal attack. The intent was just to have an exchange of ideas with a hope of learning more about my position through an honest expression of how things look from here and getting a response from someone with deeper insight.
Blog responses can really devolve into ranting and raving and lots of emotional nonsense, so I totally understand you wanting to keep things focused. However, blogs by their nature are meant to be places of free expression of ideas and opinions, so how to find balance?
With highest regards,
Steve Wallingford
November 24th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
Hello Bill and fellow life learners,
I have been using Bill’s cd’s for the last 2 years and am listening to them as I type this post. I am somewhat puzzled as I read this debate as I was under the intention the whole purpose of this new spirituality, this new age thinking, this awakening was to teach us how to learn to adapt to a knew type of thinking, a new way of being with each other. What I see happening here is just this same “Jesus at the marketplace” scenario playing itself out in modern day. I will not elaborate on that you can make your own depiction and see where it take s you. We as a human race, a species, a singular being are being awakened to a larger concept of who and what we are. That is it, that is what is happening, it isn’t going to happen it is happening right now. And guess what, it is magical, in its complexity and its simplicity it as absolutely amazing. This doesn’t mean what is happening and how it is happening cannot be explained, it just means that even if the explanation doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t mean it isn’t a viable explanation. Bill, personally I think you should go back and drink some of your own koolaid. Look around you and what are you seeing, are you confusing the map with the territory. Even for those who have a deep understanding of how this whole think works, it is easy to get caught up in the picture.
Anyway, just my two cents for what it is or isn’t worth, please discuss amongst yourselves.
November 24th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Hi Bill –
Thanks for the thoughtful response to my earlier comments. I think it goes far towards clarifying your thoughts on this important subject.
I do want to make the following comments:
(1) I just visited The Sedona Method website, which claims that if you use The Sedona Method, the following things will happen:
* Experience dramatic shifts in self-esteem and self-confidence that will improve your career, ignite passionate romances, create wealth, launch businesses, and much more . . .
* Enjoy deep feelings of inner peace that bring more joy and happiness to everyday life . . .
* Experience freedom from long-standing emotional challenges such as fear and anxiety, anger management, depression and emotional traumas . . .
* Effortlessly find the courage to take massive action towards being, doing and having the most exciting things life has to offer . . .
* Put an end, once and for all, to the struggle to quit smoking, drinking, overeating and other impulsive, addictive, self-defeating behaviors.
Apparently, magical thinking is alive and well in the marketing department at The Sedona Method. They also seem to think that enlightenment will guarantee happiness – alas, if only that were so…
(2) Speaking of marketing, you yourself appear on The Secret, which is a de facto endorsement of it. I do not think The Secret advocates getting something without effort; I think it simply invites people to consider the power of positive thinking. True, The Secret is a vast oversimplification of certain metaphysical ideas, but I think you and other thinkers who appeared on the show know very well that it was deliberately intended to be. The Secret is a marketing tool for introducing new people to metaphysical ways of thinking; those who seek more complete answers will very likely buy the products and services of the speakers featured on the show. And in my book, there’s nothing wrong with that.
(3) I agree that later developmental stages are more powerful than earlier developmental stages, but I remain puzzled by Ken Wilber’s — and your –- need to distance yourselves from the earlier developmental stages. A truly integral perspective would accept and note both the advantages and disadvantages of the earlier developmental stages and then move on, making no judgments about them. Rather than making dubious claims about “I don’t need money” and “I only think of others,” I think it’s better to accept the fact that we all need money (even the wealthy, because they wouldn’t continue to be wealthy without it) and we all need to think of ourselves (so that we can then think about others). I emphasize this point, because, as I argue below, it is very important that we not be in denial about the importance of the early developmental stages. (And no, I say this not because I am trapped within a magical thinking perspective; rather, because I have integrated the lower levels, I can accept and appreciate what they have to contribute without any need for denial or distancing from them.)
(4) I just flatly disagree with the notion that adults do not have, or should not have, “infantile desires.” Infantile desires are simply desires to meet one’s basic needs for security, stimulation, etc. Simply having such desires is not pathological; in fact, not having them is pathological (people who act as if they don’t need security or don’t need stimulation — and any therapist can tell you there are a lot of people out there like — are in a world of denial and hurt). It’s extremely important that everyone accept, be aware of, and have respect for our most basic desires and any sort of healing work that needs to be done at this level.
Transcendental consciousness is about awareness (or being the Witness, which Holosync excels at helping you to develop), and awareness is conditioned upon acceptance. Denial, then, prevents the development of transcendental consciousness. When we deny the most basic conditions of our lives, including our infantile desires, they get shoved into the unconscious and start running our lives — including the building of elaborate, perfectly “rational” defenses for why we act they way we do, even if those actions cause unhappiness. On the other hand, by accepting our conditions and desires, we can begin to manage them consciously and begin to make wiser — and truly rational — choices about our actions. Make no mistake: by “accepting” infantile desires I do not mean letting them run amok unrestrained by reason; I simply mean acknowledging that we have them — because if we deny having them, that is when they gain control and wreak havoc.
(5) On shamanism and early societies: If “magical thinking” is to be defined as thinking you will get something without any effort or without providing something of value, then ancient societies weren’t built on it. Any anthropologist can tell you that you ancient rituals were built on the notion of sacrifice — if you wanted the “gods” to give you something, you’d better offer them something valuable, like a lamb (or a human or whatever). More profoundly, however, I think those rituals (and modern rituals too) were about focusing intention and creating awareness around the priorities and desires of the individuals and communities participating in them — and usually these priorities and desires were quite practical (may the harvest be abundant, etc.)
To dismiss all this as mere “magical thinking” causes us to miss the profound importance of what they were doing: bringing individuals and communities into conscious alignment with what they really want so that they can survive and thrive. I think it’s much wiser to look at ancient societies as discovering and working with the basic structures of consciousness, which they put to practical use via rituals designed to provide individual and social therapy; I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss it all as mere “hocus pocus” even if they didn’t know exactly why or how their rituals worked. Much better to judge it by effectiveness — and it’s apparent their rituals were effective, because everything they did was aimed toward ensuring their survival, and their descendants — us — are here to tell the tale.
(5) Given all of the above, I think Ken Wilber pays lip service to the notion of “transcend and include,” usually emphasizing the transcendence part at the expense of the inclusion part. This tends to manifest in blithe dismissals of people, practices and societies who are concerned with the most basic developmental levels and processes (what has been labeled “magical thinking”), when what is needed is a deeper understanding of these people/practices/societies so that they can be fully integrated into the consciousness of those who make claims to operating at higher developmental levels.
You understand that intuitively, Bill, because while, on one hand, you believe that shamanic practices are “magical thinking,” on other other hand, you continue to work with several shamans! This is also why many advanced industrial societies, who like to think of themselves as being based on rational thinking, send teams of scientists and anthropologists to tribes in foreign lands in order to learn their “healing secrets.” Apparently, these “magic” tribes know something valuable about the medical properties of herbs, so perhaps we should also consider the possibility that they also know something valuable about the cultural and psychological processes that condition the use of those herbs — or that may even prevent both the psychological and physical wounds that necessitate the need for the use and dependence on such herbs in the first place?
(6) A quick sidepoint: As for ESP, etc., there are some awfully smart scientists and other people over at the Institute for Noetic Sciences (founded by Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell), who are working on bridging the gap between science and spiritually, including scientific studies on “extended human capacities.” I think the jury is still out on paranormal abilities.
(7) Another quick sidepoint: You seem to think by simply working hard and creating something of value, the world will reward you for it — that may be the real “magical thinking” going on here, as there are many examples of people doing important things who are not rewarded for it. This is particularly true if we limit the meaning of “rewards” to the financial kind. Markets are notorious for valuing what people think is valuable rather than what is intrinsically valuable. This explains why Van Gogh died penniless although his paintings now sell for millions. This is not to say that people shouldn’t work hard – virtue is its own reward really – but we need to be careful about double-checking all our assumptions before we go around labeling people and things “magical.”
(7) Which brings me to my last point: why, oh why, do the various hawkers of transcendental ideologies, methods and tools seem to think that their way and only their way is the true route to transcendental consciousness? Are we really sure that only meditation leads to it? Are we really sure that only “post-rational” advanced industrial nations are capable of producing a lot of people who have access to it? Wasn’t Buddha himself part of a “pre-rational” society?
The observations in the last few paragraphs above are not so easily dismissed by the “pre/trans fallacy” argument. I think it is quite possible that ancient peoples were aware of and had access to transcendental consciousness; this notion that only modern people can be truly transcendental rings false to me, especially since Jesus and Buddha themselves belonged to pre-rational societies. The idea that the ancients were merely ignorant savages wasting their lives away in “magical thinking” is, I think, a psychological defense that modern people use to convince themselves that (a) they aren’t savage themselves, and (b) their lives are so much better than the ancients — and yet we can all think of examples of modern savagery and modern unhappiness.
I think the main difference between modern societies and ancient ones — and the main benefit of rational thought — is the existence of technology rather than personal happiness; Holosync is proof that we can use technology, and not only ritual, to help us on our spiritual journey. But I don’t think the recent technological improvements should cause us to dismiss older spiritual rituals; those rituals provide a context and forum for conscious alignment with individual and social desires that should inform how we apply those technologies and their benefits in our individual and collective lives.
Don’t get me wrong: Ken Wilber has made a profound contribution to the philosophy of consciousness by bringing a generalist and developmental overview to a field mired in unuseful specialist bickering. And his independent mode of operating is as much a strength as a weakness. It is unfortunate that he doesn’t respond to his critics, as that would refine his ideas and make them even more powerful; on the other hand, it’s perfectly understandable that he wants to see his ideas applied in as many different fields as possible (religion to politics to culture, and so on) and he’d rather spend his time on that.
That’s why I am very thankful to you, Bill, for providing one opportunity to critique Ken Wilber’s work.
I continue to enjoy the use of Holosync.
Namaste,
Anthony
November 24th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
If I had paranormal powers i would never tell anyone about them. The government might kill you or some mobster might kidnap you!
November 24th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Bill, Bill, Bill! You are sounding just a teensey bit resentful towards the people who disagree with you. Welcome them! Bless their questions! Treat them as opportunities to expand upon their perspectives and their knowledge. I’m sure, deep down you do, and they are there to reinforce these qualities in you. There are also some comments which read a little negatively, like - I don’t have time here. You don’t need to say that. Why am I bothering to contribute for the very first time to a blog? Because Holosync and Life Integration Principles and all the free(!!) tapes are making a wonderful difference in my life - and the lives of so many others. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
November 24th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Bill,
I personally appreciate all the work you and many others are doing. I was recently asked by someone if I had seen the secret? I said yes, it was great and I bought three copies, gave two away and have one to loan to people. They asked me what I thought? I described the Secret like it was the icing on a cake. When you see a delicious cake with an appealing icing you want to eat it. Well, that is where all you and the others doing the work referred to in the Secret comes into play. The Secret makes you want to learn the receipe of how to make the cake. So that is what I’m doing right now. Practicing learning how to make the cake. It takes practice to make the cake and icing delicious.
November 24th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
I am enjoying Holosync. It has added a new texture to my deep life and made the more difficult aspects easier to handle. I’ve listened to your cd of a workshop and I was reading all of the blog material.
I found your last few to be a bit of a diatribe. Your testy responses are a bit confusing only because you are a little bit in a “teacher” position to many people.
I personally don’t take on “teachers” or “guru’s” because I have a rich magical life that includes contact with my Spirit Guides. They led me to use Holosync during a wild unexpected change in career.
I hope that you may find more tolerance with Holosyncers that dream or may be seeking a teacher figure so that may learn from this wonderful process as well as the more linear personality types.
My “aunt sally” always comes through with dough after I’ve requested an inflow of money from Universe/Source. Always in a strange way from an unexpected source when there is a sudden need and no logical way to match the need.
Coincidences do not exist.
November 24th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Dear Bill,
As someone who appreciates your writing, - your CLEAR writing - I feel a sense of frustration on your behalf when someone writes in with a way-off-base “comment”. Usually, their “comment” is an accusation. I laugh my head off when in the comic strip “Dilbert”, Dilbert says something completely clearly yet his pointy-headed boss still mangles it! This material in your blog is more serious than a comic strip, yet I have no cause to despair, for two good reasons:
1) You’re a “big boy”, as the saying goes, and you handle your criticisms very well. Which just gives all of us readers a chance to learn even more.
And,
2) If someone is bothering to write in, even to say something COMPLETELY misguided, at least they are in the right place to be disabused of it! Thank you for doing that about “The Secret”! Thank you!
Separate from that, I must echo Stephen’s request when he asked you to comment on Feng Shui. In a mystical, metaphysical way, it’s so-o-o appealing. Yet, I too struggle with the idea that people can get unexpectedly rich by moving the furniture around! Raise your threshold by pushing your brain, yes; get rich by moving furniture? Hmm!
Striving for oneness,
Kat
November 24th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Hi Bill,
Thank you for your insight. It is very detailed.
Thier is nothing to proof to anyone about magic. The own consciousness will answer to all the questions.
I think that magic is everything that cannot be explained or understand “scientifically.
A lot of humans know that thier are many kind of energies. Basically their are only 2 kinds of energies: left turning and right turning.
Left turning energy destroys life, and we can see some examples in nature like most huracanes, typhoons, poisoning, cancer, etc.
Right turning energy creates or generates life, like oxigen, clean water, happiness and love.
So, if we mostly cannot see physically love it doesn´t mean that it doesn´t exist, and maybe it cannot be prooven in a lab.
Another example could be lets say a glass full of wine. If we give it enough right turning energy, the taste will change as if it would mature 3 to 5 years, and most common man cannot see this energy, but the physical properties will be different.
One last example, talking about a trascendant state. We cannot proof that someone is already enlightened, maybe because their is nothing to proof, or we could also say that why we have to proof it scientifically?
Blessings,
Arun
November 24th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
I love your new blog. it has answered so many questions. it is also making everything so clear. Thank-you.
Mary-Ann
November 24th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Hi Bill,
However, I don’t quite understand the idea that after all desire, attachments, duality is striped away, what’s left is love and perfection. Isn’t love an attachment and something that we consider positive, and inherently an aspect of this system of duality that our mind creates? Do you refer to Ultimate Reality as love because it is so amazing and beyond anything we can fathom, and love is the closest thing we have to relating to something like that?
I have enjoyed reading your blogs, and have been seeing the benefits from using Holoync for two months now. I follow the concepts of universal oneness, and the beautiful Buddhist-esque concepts you refer to in your blogs.
Could you e-mail me if you get a chance? I’d really appreciate it. I’m an Anthropology, Philosophy major at UCLA and heard that we have a Mindfulness Awareness Research Center on campus…do you know anything about it? I look forward to the next blog!
Thanks,
Christina
November 25th, 2007 at 1:49 am
Hello Bill,
Everything you do is world class. Please keep doing it!
It seems to me that there is no material difference between focusing our minds on what we want and taking action to make it happen. The one INEVITABLY follows the other. And if not, doesn’t is simply mean that we are not focusing our minds where we ‘think’ we are?
Thank you for your excellent teachings
John
P.S. “You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.” John Lydgate.
November 25th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Bill,
Having been studying with you these past few years, I have changed from magical thinking to focusing on what I want and taking the action to bring it into manifestation. Instead of studying “the Secret” I study things that will help me bring the skills to manifest what I want. At first I was concerned about losing my connection to the Divine and Grace that carried me through times of trials and tribulations, but that didn’t happen. I am more connected to a Power greater than myself and because my mind, emotions and Internal Map is in alignment with my desire to be of service, I am much more effective. Thank you for your clairity and patience.
As I was reading your Blog, I realized that the next level of Spirituality is to see the Big Picture and see that the more we support each others development, the more we are connected.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:14 am
Thank you Bill:
I appreciate the patience you show in answering the arguments that come up. Further explanation and clarification do add reinforcement to new concepts - but I don’t think they’ve been needed because you’re not clear about what you say. You speak clearly! Your first blog on magical thinking was they eye opener for me. (There was that moment of “oh my god, I do that! And then the realization of how silly and incomplete that is.) I understood what you were saying….you were clear!
Thank you for Holosync, the Map of Reality Expander Course and this blog. It’s an exciting journey!
Diane
November 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Bill,
What are your views on the “Law of Attraction” as taught by the entity Abraham through Jerry and Esther Hicks?
November 25th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
Good stuff
November 25th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Bill,
Let me ask a question. Where would you place Christian Science practitioning (healing) within this discussion? Are the practitioner’s statements that “You are the creation of a perfect God, God’s perfect reflection. The perception of disease is simply an error. Once the error is released, no longer believed in, the illusion of disease will disappear.” That’s a fairly shorthanded summary, but does that smack of magical thinking? One does not get healed for free - one must give up the error - the sin - of doubt and lack of faith - or lack of obedience to God’s laws, but healing does occur. Physics or metaphysics? Mental alignment or magical thinking?
Thanks! Listening to holosync now!
ASM
November 25th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Bill thanks a lot for the magical thinking discussion, the way you do it with plain, simple, every day language is great for a “real” understanding of the subject. This blog is 10 times