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	<title>Comments on: Beyond the separate Self: the Unitive stage of development</title>
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	<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/</link>
	<description>Musings from the mind of Bill Harris. Creator of Holosync, founder &#38; director of Centerpointe Research Institute, and a featured teacher in The Secret, Bill has taught hundreds of thousands of people how to harness The Law of Attraction to make lasting improvements in their lives.</description>
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		<title>By: Brian Fradet</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6357</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Fradet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6357</guid>
		<description>Hi Bill--

Can you please explain the difference between the experience with Centerpoint&#039;s CD&#039;s and a person who does TM (transendental meditation) consistantly?  Is there a difference and what might it be?  While I believe in the power of technology, some things also can&#039;t be shortcutted.  Please explain.  Thanks,  Brian

FROM BILL: Excellent question.

First, you should know that I started with TM, in 1969, and did it faithfully or 16 years. In fact, I still do it sometimes. I have 6 of their advanced techniques, and took their advanced TM Sidhi program twenty-nine years ago. I have the utmost respect for the TM family of techniques.

When you do TM, or most other traditional techniques, you are slowing your brain waves into the alpha pattern, and later, if you practice enough, you are having periodic excursions into a theta brain wave pattern. These slower brain wave patterns create more awareness, they connect you more with the unconscious mind, they eliminate stresses from the nervous system, and they cause the brain to make a number of beneficial (and pleasurable) neurochemicals and hormones that improve your heath, your mental clarity, and your emotional functioning. 

These slower brain wave patterns also create greater coherence, or synchrony in the brain. The two sides of the brain work together more (the result of new neural pathways between the left and right homishperes), creating what scientists call &quot;whole brain functioning.&quot; 

In addition to the increases in mental clarity and the other things I mentioned above, brain coherence is associated with greater awareness of how everything goes together, how everything is one connected thing/event. This awareness is associated with greater happiness and well being, more peace of mind, greater compassion, increased wisdom, and greater feelings of spiritual connectedness. 

On the other hand, brain lateralization--where to the hemispheres are not coherent (associated with the faster brain wave patterns most people are experiencing most of the time)--is associated with feelings of separation along with the emotions that go with that seeming separation (anger, fear, anxiety, depression, alienation, etc.). The ultimate feeling/experience that everything is connected, that everything &quot;goes together&quot;, is the Oneness experience many people speak of--Unity Consciousness, the Transcendent, Christ Consciousness, I Am That, or whatever you want to call it.

Holosync is simply another way to create these slower brain wave patterns, except that: 

1) we can create them the first time and every time, easily, consistently, and precisely, so you don&#039;t have to spend years (sometimes decades) perfecting the ability to create them with traditional techniques. People often quit meditation before they see real results (other than feeling a bit more calm and relaxed) because meditation, at least at first, can be tedious and difficult. 

2) With Holosync we can go even deeper than traditional meditation, into delta patterns, which are associated with what is called the causal plane, with kundalini awakenings, and with incredible increases in awareness. This ability greatly accelerates the process (and is an amazing experience).

3) By lowering what is called the &quot;carrier frequency&quot; we use to change your brain waves as we go from one program level to the next, we can make the experience increasingly more potent (and more challenging), something similar in power to being in the presence of a powerful awakened teacher day after day. 4) People tend to progress, based on my experience with over 700,000 people over 23 years, about 4-6 times faster than with traditional techniques, and the progress begins right away, rather than after a lengthy time spent mastering the technique.

You seem to be wondering whether or not you can attain with tradional meditation with Holosync because it seems to be a shortcut, and therefore must be akin to losing weight without dieting, or learning without studying. I have two answers to that. First, the results speak for themselves. Ask someone who has done Holosync for any length of time and they will tell you that the results are real, and they are permanent. You can read many comments about this all over this blog. There are a lot of them after the initial post, for instance. 

In fact, as with traditional meditation, a momentum is created when you use Holosync that continues for years after you stop. It does not create a dependency, and the results do not taper off or go away if you stop using it. And, I&#039;d have to say that I had more happen in my first year of Holosync than in the prior 16 years of traditional meditation, and I was a VERY disciplined meditator pre-Holosync, putting in 1-4 hours a day.

Second, Holosync is anything but easy, and for the same reason that traditional meditation, if done seriously (rather than 30-40 minutes a day, for instance, as most people practice it) isn&#039;t easy. Yes, you skip the big learning curve with Holosync, and the technology creates the brain wave changes rather than your focusing tecnnique. But the real challenge of meditation isn&#039;t learning how to do it (in fact, Holosync users who have never meditated, after a couple of years, meditate better than much more experienced traditional meditators because their brains have been changed to match the brains of those who have put in many times the number of years of meditation). 

The real challenge in meditation is that it reveals who you are under the surface, under your facade, and a lot of people don&#039;t like what is revealed. Whatever aspects of yourself or the world that you have disowned--whatever you think is bad, wrong, negative about yourself or others--will move from unconscious to conscious. Because you don&#039;t like or approve of this stuff, which is why you disowned it in the first place, you resist it when it comes into awareness. This can create tremendous upheaval, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. You experience your own resistance to certain parts of the whole. 

Ironically, it is the embracing of all of this stuff that allows a person to enter into transcendent consciousness. You can visit without handling all this stuff, but until you handle most of it, you can&#039;t stay. If you want to realize that you are the ALL, you can&#039;t be making part of it not-okay. This process of embracing ALL of the universe is the most difficult thing any human can undertake. At the same time it is an amazing journey, and every step takes you to a higher spot on the mountain, with a better view of yourself, other people, and the human condition.

A Holosync user has to go through this process just as any traditional meditator does, except that the journey starts sooner, because you skip the preliminary learning curve, and it happens faster. Results appear much sooner, which reinforces one&#039;s motivation to keep going. Most traditional meditators, in fact, never meditate deeply enough, or for long enough, for this to really happen.

I have to say that I was extremely skeptical about what became Holosync myself when I first began to play around with it back in 1985. But when I began to experience the results, both in terms of the meditative experiences and the long terms results (all the stuff I&#039;d read was supposed to happen but was only happening a little bit, here and there) I became convinced. Now, many years later, having seen many thousands of people report their own version of the same thing, I&#039;m even more sure. And, of course, there is the fact that Integral Institute&#039;s Ken Wilber and many of the top teacher there use (or have used--and endorse--Holosync, and Zen Master Genpo Roshi and many of his top students use it

Try it. You&#039;ll like it. And, you can still do TM, if you already do it, along with it. Many people do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bill&#8211;</p>
<p>Can you please explain the difference between the experience with Centerpoint&#8217;s CD&#8217;s and a person who does TM (transendental meditation) consistantly?  Is there a difference and what might it be?  While I believe in the power of technology, some things also can&#8217;t be shortcutted.  Please explain.  Thanks,  Brian</p>
<p>FROM BILL: Excellent question.</p>
<p>First, you should know that I started with TM, in 1969, and did it faithfully or 16 years. In fact, I still do it sometimes. I have 6 of their advanced techniques, and took their advanced TM Sidhi program twenty-nine years ago. I have the utmost respect for the TM family of techniques.</p>
<p>When you do TM, or most other traditional techniques, you are slowing your brain waves into the alpha pattern, and later, if you practice enough, you are having periodic excursions into a theta brain wave pattern. These slower brain wave patterns create more awareness, they connect you more with the unconscious mind, they eliminate stresses from the nervous system, and they cause the brain to make a number of beneficial (and pleasurable) neurochemicals and hormones that improve your heath, your mental clarity, and your emotional functioning. </p>
<p>These slower brain wave patterns also create greater coherence, or synchrony in the brain. The two sides of the brain work together more (the result of new neural pathways between the left and right homishperes), creating what scientists call &#8220;whole brain functioning.&#8221; </p>
<p>In addition to the increases in mental clarity and the other things I mentioned above, brain coherence is associated with greater awareness of how everything goes together, how everything is one connected thing/event. This awareness is associated with greater happiness and well being, more peace of mind, greater compassion, increased wisdom, and greater feelings of spiritual connectedness. </p>
<p>On the other hand, brain lateralization&#8211;where to the hemispheres are not coherent (associated with the faster brain wave patterns most people are experiencing most of the time)&#8211;is associated with feelings of separation along with the emotions that go with that seeming separation (anger, fear, anxiety, depression, alienation, etc.). The ultimate feeling/experience that everything is connected, that everything &#8220;goes together&#8221;, is the Oneness experience many people speak of&#8211;Unity Consciousness, the Transcendent, Christ Consciousness, I Am That, or whatever you want to call it.</p>
<p>Holosync is simply another way to create these slower brain wave patterns, except that: </p>
<p>1) we can create them the first time and every time, easily, consistently, and precisely, so you don&#8217;t have to spend years (sometimes decades) perfecting the ability to create them with traditional techniques. People often quit meditation before they see real results (other than feeling a bit more calm and relaxed) because meditation, at least at first, can be tedious and difficult. </p>
<p>2) With Holosync we can go even deeper than traditional meditation, into delta patterns, which are associated with what is called the causal plane, with kundalini awakenings, and with incredible increases in awareness. This ability greatly accelerates the process (and is an amazing experience).</p>
<p>3) By lowering what is called the &#8220;carrier frequency&#8221; we use to change your brain waves as we go from one program level to the next, we can make the experience increasingly more potent (and more challenging), something similar in power to being in the presence of a powerful awakened teacher day after day. 4) People tend to progress, based on my experience with over 700,000 people over 23 years, about 4-6 times faster than with traditional techniques, and the progress begins right away, rather than after a lengthy time spent mastering the technique.</p>
<p>You seem to be wondering whether or not you can attain with tradional meditation with Holosync because it seems to be a shortcut, and therefore must be akin to losing weight without dieting, or learning without studying. I have two answers to that. First, the results speak for themselves. Ask someone who has done Holosync for any length of time and they will tell you that the results are real, and they are permanent. You can read many comments about this all over this blog. There are a lot of them after the initial post, for instance. </p>
<p>In fact, as with traditional meditation, a momentum is created when you use Holosync that continues for years after you stop. It does not create a dependency, and the results do not taper off or go away if you stop using it. And, I&#8217;d have to say that I had more happen in my first year of Holosync than in the prior 16 years of traditional meditation, and I was a VERY disciplined meditator pre-Holosync, putting in 1-4 hours a day.</p>
<p>Second, Holosync is anything but easy, and for the same reason that traditional meditation, if done seriously (rather than 30-40 minutes a day, for instance, as most people practice it) isn&#8217;t easy. Yes, you skip the big learning curve with Holosync, and the technology creates the brain wave changes rather than your focusing tecnnique. But the real challenge of meditation isn&#8217;t learning how to do it (in fact, Holosync users who have never meditated, after a couple of years, meditate better than much more experienced traditional meditators because their brains have been changed to match the brains of those who have put in many times the number of years of meditation). </p>
<p>The real challenge in meditation is that it reveals who you are under the surface, under your facade, and a lot of people don&#8217;t like what is revealed. Whatever aspects of yourself or the world that you have disowned&#8211;whatever you think is bad, wrong, negative about yourself or others&#8211;will move from unconscious to conscious. Because you don&#8217;t like or approve of this stuff, which is why you disowned it in the first place, you resist it when it comes into awareness. This can create tremendous upheaval, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. You experience your own resistance to certain parts of the whole. </p>
<p>Ironically, it is the embracing of all of this stuff that allows a person to enter into transcendent consciousness. You can visit without handling all this stuff, but until you handle most of it, you can&#8217;t stay. If you want to realize that you are the ALL, you can&#8217;t be making part of it not-okay. This process of embracing ALL of the universe is the most difficult thing any human can undertake. At the same time it is an amazing journey, and every step takes you to a higher spot on the mountain, with a better view of yourself, other people, and the human condition.</p>
<p>A Holosync user has to go through this process just as any traditional meditator does, except that the journey starts sooner, because you skip the preliminary learning curve, and it happens faster. Results appear much sooner, which reinforces one&#8217;s motivation to keep going. Most traditional meditators, in fact, never meditate deeply enough, or for long enough, for this to really happen.</p>
<p>I have to say that I was extremely skeptical about what became Holosync myself when I first began to play around with it back in 1985. But when I began to experience the results, both in terms of the meditative experiences and the long terms results (all the stuff I&#8217;d read was supposed to happen but was only happening a little bit, here and there) I became convinced. Now, many years later, having seen many thousands of people report their own version of the same thing, I&#8217;m even more sure. And, of course, there is the fact that Integral Institute&#8217;s Ken Wilber and many of the top teacher there use (or have used&#8211;and endorse&#8211;Holosync, and Zen Master Genpo Roshi and many of his top students use it</p>
<p>Try it. You&#8217;ll like it. And, you can still do TM, if you already do it, along with it. Many people do.</p>
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		<title>By: Adriana Sabbadin</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6345</link>
		<dc:creator>Adriana Sabbadin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6345</guid>
		<description>Bill, thank you for your input. I would like to discuss this further. Are you reachable at any other address? if so please let me have your contact as I do not want to clog the blog.

all the best 
Adriana

FROM BILL: I&#039;m sorry, but I&#039;m not available at any other address. Unfortunately, I have SO many people using Holosync and taking my other courses that if I interacted with all the people who ask for me, I wouldn&#039;t have any time to do anything. That&#039;s why I have a large support staff and communicate with everyone as much as possible in writing, audio, and video. More of that in the works. The best way to interact with me (other than this limited blog post opportunity) is to take the Platinum version of my online courses, where you get unlimited email access to me about the course content (www.centerpointe.com/life) or to come to a public event. The public events I&#039;m doing consist of speaking at other people&#039;s seminars from time to time, the workshops I do with Genpo Roshi (www.centerpointe.com/bigmind), plus, this year, an 8-city tour I will do with Lisa Nichols for her book launch (I will speak before she does at a Saturday night event in each of eight cities and then meet after with Centerpointe people in that city) in May and June.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, thank you for your input. I would like to discuss this further. Are you reachable at any other address? if so please let me have your contact as I do not want to clog the blog.</p>
<p>all the best<br />
Adriana</p>
<p>FROM BILL: I&#8217;m sorry, but I&#8217;m not available at any other address. Unfortunately, I have SO many people using Holosync and taking my other courses that if I interacted with all the people who ask for me, I wouldn&#8217;t have any time to do anything. That&#8217;s why I have a large support staff and communicate with everyone as much as possible in writing, audio, and video. More of that in the works. The best way to interact with me (other than this limited blog post opportunity) is to take the Platinum version of my online courses, where you get unlimited email access to me about the course content (www.centerpointe.com/life) or to come to a public event. The public events I&#8217;m doing consist of speaking at other people&#8217;s seminars from time to time, the workshops I do with Genpo Roshi (www.centerpointe.com/bigmind), plus, this year, an 8-city tour I will do with Lisa Nichols for her book launch (I will speak before she does at a Saturday night event in each of eight cities and then meet after with Centerpointe people in that city) in May and June.</p>
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		<title>By: Adriana Sabbadin</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6339</link>
		<dc:creator>Adriana Sabbadin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 18:53:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6339</guid>
		<description>Dear Bill,

I have been using Holosync since July 2008. I am now on Awakening level 1 and I have to thank you for such a great tool you put at my disposal for furthering my personal growth.

I am a senior Psychotherapist at Kids Company a fairly large for UK standard charity organisation run by the great Camila Batmanlghelidjh based in London Uk providing assistance and help to over 12000 neglected kids in schools around London and about 1000 attenting their centres. You can read further about Camila and Kids company at www.kidsco.org/uk to have an idea of the type of organisation it is and how it operates. Last year Kids Company recived £4M from the governement.

I have been working with Camila for the past 4 years. I provide support/supervision and psychotherpay on a one-two-one basis to members of staff that work directly with emotionally neglected and physically/sexually abused children. I run creative imagination workshops for Kidsco as well as at CCPE (Centre for Counselling and Psychotherapy Education) in West London. I also have a private practice in London Little Venice.

I was discussing Holosync with Camila a couple of weeks ago, I was putting forward to her the idea of offering to some of the young people attending Kidsco centres a room equipped with headphones and holosync meditation. Of course the first possible hitch we may encounter will be &quot;attention span&quot;. Can you imagine a group of 15years-old coming into a room and seat there for 30min listening to rain and bell sound? We both laughed, you can join us too in it.

I have chosen not to let it go and decided I would get in touch with you and pick your brain together with your personal and professional experience to come up with some ideas. You must have encontered similar enquiries or perhaps you have allready placed holosync in similar places.

So here I am asking for your inputs. I am very interested in such a project as I know directly how beneficial holosync has been to me personally. Bear in mind that I am a transpersonal psychotherapist and have been fairly interested in personal growth for several years.

Well, get in touch with me as soon as you can. I will be prepared to meet you in NY if necessary.

Bear in mind that Kidsco is a charity and always lacking funds so do not go over board when you look into the project. Camila has still to raise 4.5M to run the all operation and she does it very well together with Prince Charles, Allan Yenton, Ruby Wax, Gweneth Paltrow, The archbishop of Canterbury and many more committed benefactors  Kids Company.

Awaiting to hearing from you

Best wishes

Adriana Sabbadin

FROM BILL: You are doing good things. I am on the board of a few similar organizations in the US, and give them lots of money each year.

I don&#039;t think the attention span thing will be a problem, based on the feedback we get from thousands of parents who offer Holosync to their kids. They love it, including those who are ADD. And, it has a powerful positive effect on many of the problems such kids have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Bill,</p>
<p>I have been using Holosync since July 2008. I am now on Awakening level 1 and I have to thank you for such a great tool you put at my disposal for furthering my personal growth.</p>
<p>I am a senior Psychotherapist at Kids Company a fairly large for UK standard charity organisation run by the great Camila Batmanlghelidjh based in London Uk providing assistance and help to over 12000 neglected kids in schools around London and about 1000 attenting their centres. You can read further about Camila and Kids company at <a href="http://www.kidsco.org/uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.kidsco.org/uk</a> to have an idea of the type of organisation it is and how it operates. Last year Kids Company recived £4M from the governement.</p>
<p>I have been working with Camila for the past 4 years. I provide support/supervision and psychotherpay on a one-two-one basis to members of staff that work directly with emotionally neglected and physically/sexually abused children. I run creative imagination workshops for Kidsco as well as at CCPE (Centre for Counselling and Psychotherapy Education) in West London. I also have a private practice in London Little Venice.</p>
<p>I was discussing Holosync with Camila a couple of weeks ago, I was putting forward to her the idea of offering to some of the young people attending Kidsco centres a room equipped with headphones and holosync meditation. Of course the first possible hitch we may encounter will be &#8220;attention span&#8221;. Can you imagine a group of 15years-old coming into a room and seat there for 30min listening to rain and bell sound? We both laughed, you can join us too in it.</p>
<p>I have chosen not to let it go and decided I would get in touch with you and pick your brain together with your personal and professional experience to come up with some ideas. You must have encontered similar enquiries or perhaps you have allready placed holosync in similar places.</p>
<p>So here I am asking for your inputs. I am very interested in such a project as I know directly how beneficial holosync has been to me personally. Bear in mind that I am a transpersonal psychotherapist and have been fairly interested in personal growth for several years.</p>
<p>Well, get in touch with me as soon as you can. I will be prepared to meet you in NY if necessary.</p>
<p>Bear in mind that Kidsco is a charity and always lacking funds so do not go over board when you look into the project. Camila has still to raise 4.5M to run the all operation and she does it very well together with Prince Charles, Allan Yenton, Ruby Wax, Gweneth Paltrow, The archbishop of Canterbury and many more committed benefactors  Kids Company.</p>
<p>Awaiting to hearing from you</p>
<p>Best wishes</p>
<p>Adriana Sabbadin</p>
<p>FROM BILL: You are doing good things. I am on the board of a few similar organizations in the US, and give them lots of money each year.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the attention span thing will be a problem, based on the feedback we get from thousands of parents who offer Holosync to their kids. They love it, including those who are ADD. And, it has a powerful positive effect on many of the problems such kids have.</p>
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		<title>By: JV</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6326</link>
		<dc:creator>JV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:47:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6326</guid>
		<description>Thank you Bill for  Holosync and this Blog...........
I have used Holosync........I the been an interesting ride to be sure.  I don&#039;t react quite the same way  I used to act torward things....I am only on the 1st level......I like life more w/all the ups and downs.............this is what a few folks have said about me: .....What are you doing you definitely  seem more settled......You look so much better......I notice you have let go of certain things you have definitely grown. ......you look and act a  lot different, better somehow.....you sound different.......what are you doing?

FROM BILL: I hope you&#039;re telling tem!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Bill for  Holosync and this Blog&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..<br />
I have used Holosync&#8230;&#8230;..I the been an interesting ride to be sure.  I don&#8217;t react quite the same way  I used to act torward things&#8230;.I am only on the 1st level&#8230;&#8230;I like life more w/all the ups and downs&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.this is what a few folks have said about me: &#8230;..What are you doing you definitely  seem more settled&#8230;&#8230;You look so much better&#8230;&#8230;I notice you have let go of certain things you have definitely grown. &#8230;&#8230;you look and act a  lot different, better somehow&#8230;..you sound different&#8230;&#8230;.what are you doing?</p>
<p>FROM BILL: I hope you&#8217;re telling tem!</p>
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		<title>By: Trent</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6220</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 00:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6220</guid>
		<description>Bill, integration can take place at any stage on the path. The content of reality is still accessible and malleable despite one&#039;s conscious level. Some may choose to integrate slowly while they gain insights, may some take follow a road that resembles Tozan&#039;s 5 ranks. 

The point I would make for what you said about a doer is similar. Although the unitive (assuming now that we&#039;re speaking about Tozan&#039;s 3rd) would have the ability to see that macro perspective of reality, he would not lose the ability to interpret the micro perspective of &quot;his self.&quot; Again, that is the content of reality and as you said, that is how it always has been. The point I am trying to make is that description like this SOUND like a limiting model of enlightenment, and any model of enlightenment that limits anything is erroneous and sets the stage for problems. I&#039;m simply making the point that either view can now be embodied; more doors are open. While this new view is available, the old can still be taken to help the person function in a normal, everyday human way, and often times that is the best way to go about it, regardless of whether or not they have the knowledge to know that feeling is illusory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, integration can take place at any stage on the path. The content of reality is still accessible and malleable despite one&#8217;s conscious level. Some may choose to integrate slowly while they gain insights, may some take follow a road that resembles Tozan&#8217;s 5 ranks. </p>
<p>The point I would make for what you said about a doer is similar. Although the unitive (assuming now that we&#8217;re speaking about Tozan&#8217;s 3rd) would have the ability to see that macro perspective of reality, he would not lose the ability to interpret the micro perspective of &#8220;his self.&#8221; Again, that is the content of reality and as you said, that is how it always has been. The point I am trying to make is that description like this SOUND like a limiting model of enlightenment, and any model of enlightenment that limits anything is erroneous and sets the stage for problems. I&#8217;m simply making the point that either view can now be embodied; more doors are open. While this new view is available, the old can still be taken to help the person function in a normal, everyday human way, and often times that is the best way to go about it, regardless of whether or not they have the knowledge to know that feeling is illusory.</p>
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		<title>By: Trent</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6218</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 21:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6218</guid>
		<description>I typically enjoy your writing and enjoy this one as well. I do however feel that there are a few things that should be illuminated that are not. These are particularly important points that are prone to misunderstanding.

One of the main misleading things when speaking about this view is: although the Unitive may &quot;see the grand dance,&quot; &quot;know they have no free will&quot; and other relatively profound thoughts, there is an important message missing here. That message is: context. There&#039;s a right and wrong context for when these views are embodied, and the unitive has the perspective to assume the right view for the right time because they were also at those prior stages at one time in their lives.

Here are a few examples. It is very important that when driving a car, planning your wedding, etc, that a doer is assumed. It is important to realize that a car crash would be bad and that showing up naked to a wedding is also bad. Now, from the &quot;extra&quot; perspective the unitive has, this is just &quot;how it is&quot; and &quot;no one did it,&quot; and so on.

This brings an important point: how reality &quot;really is&quot; is the exact same as it is for the unitive; although thinking about it from other way around perhaps teaches a better lesson. If you think being a unitive sounds scary in some way, then realize that the profound nature of what it SOUNDS like is much different from WHAT IT IS. I can best demonstrate it with the analogy of a coin.

Take a coin and look at the &quot;heads&quot; side, this will be our &quot;phenomenal world,&quot; the arising and passing sensations with all of their human meanings, all the drama, all the feelings, etc. Now view the &quot;tails&quot; side. This side is the &quot;transcendent,&quot; the ability to see the world as &quot;it really is,&quot; bare bones emptiness, unity, and so forth. Now put the coin on the desk and spin it. THAT is what a unitive&#039;s life is like. Every single thing that was true before being a unitive is true afterwards. Now, hoever, there is simply an added wisdom that comes from the insights gained while moving through the path. 

Enlightenment, being a unitive, and everything related does not outwardly change a person much on it&#039;s own. The enlightened must choose to change the content of awareness by choice, just as anyone else does. When the dogma is stripped from enlightenment, the enlightened person is left with one basic thing: true insight and understanding of the 3 characteristics of reality (suffering/no-self/impermanence), and that is all. The content of reality is still the same, and that content may or may not be changed based on these insights. 

In summary: the unitive still has the &quot;heads&quot; side of the coin, but they also have the &quot;tails&quot; side to look at now as well; and this duality is mixed and mingled to serve whatever purpose they decide, whether that is good, bad, or downright ugly.

FROM BILL: FIrst, I would say that the stage in which a person integrates the relative and the transcendent is perhaps beyond that of the Unitive stage. The Zen master Tozan referred to it as the Fifth Rank, the Unitive probably representing the Third.

Second, I did not say that there was no doer. I said that there was no individual doer. When driving or attending a wedding there is indeed a doer--the whole. Even for the most unawake person, there is no separate doer. The whole is always the only doer. The Unitive just has the wisdom to know it. So driving, or dressing for the wedding, both happen, but no separate doer is needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I typically enjoy your writing and enjoy this one as well. I do however feel that there are a few things that should be illuminated that are not. These are particularly important points that are prone to misunderstanding.</p>
<p>One of the main misleading things when speaking about this view is: although the Unitive may &#8220;see the grand dance,&#8221; &#8220;know they have no free will&#8221; and other relatively profound thoughts, there is an important message missing here. That message is: context. There&#8217;s a right and wrong context for when these views are embodied, and the unitive has the perspective to assume the right view for the right time because they were also at those prior stages at one time in their lives.</p>
<p>Here are a few examples. It is very important that when driving a car, planning your wedding, etc, that a doer is assumed. It is important to realize that a car crash would be bad and that showing up naked to a wedding is also bad. Now, from the &#8220;extra&#8221; perspective the unitive has, this is just &#8220;how it is&#8221; and &#8220;no one did it,&#8221; and so on.</p>
<p>This brings an important point: how reality &#8220;really is&#8221; is the exact same as it is for the unitive; although thinking about it from other way around perhaps teaches a better lesson. If you think being a unitive sounds scary in some way, then realize that the profound nature of what it SOUNDS like is much different from WHAT IT IS. I can best demonstrate it with the analogy of a coin.</p>
<p>Take a coin and look at the &#8220;heads&#8221; side, this will be our &#8220;phenomenal world,&#8221; the arising and passing sensations with all of their human meanings, all the drama, all the feelings, etc. Now view the &#8220;tails&#8221; side. This side is the &#8220;transcendent,&#8221; the ability to see the world as &#8220;it really is,&#8221; bare bones emptiness, unity, and so forth. Now put the coin on the desk and spin it. THAT is what a unitive&#8217;s life is like. Every single thing that was true before being a unitive is true afterwards. Now, hoever, there is simply an added wisdom that comes from the insights gained while moving through the path. </p>
<p>Enlightenment, being a unitive, and everything related does not outwardly change a person much on it&#8217;s own. The enlightened must choose to change the content of awareness by choice, just as anyone else does. When the dogma is stripped from enlightenment, the enlightened person is left with one basic thing: true insight and understanding of the 3 characteristics of reality (suffering/no-self/impermanence), and that is all. The content of reality is still the same, and that content may or may not be changed based on these insights. </p>
<p>In summary: the unitive still has the &#8220;heads&#8221; side of the coin, but they also have the &#8220;tails&#8221; side to look at now as well; and this duality is mixed and mingled to serve whatever purpose they decide, whether that is good, bad, or downright ugly.</p>
<p>FROM BILL: FIrst, I would say that the stage in which a person integrates the relative and the transcendent is perhaps beyond that of the Unitive stage. The Zen master Tozan referred to it as the Fifth Rank, the Unitive probably representing the Third.</p>
<p>Second, I did not say that there was no doer. I said that there was no individual doer. When driving or attending a wedding there is indeed a doer&#8211;the whole. Even for the most unawake person, there is no separate doer. The whole is always the only doer. The Unitive just has the wisdom to know it. So driving, or dressing for the wedding, both happen, but no separate doer is needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6211</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 10:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6211</guid>
		<description>You just explained basic meaning of enjoyment of life in realization of time. I AM THAT I AM , I AM ONE. CHOOSE LIFE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You just explained basic meaning of enjoyment of life in realization of time. I AM THAT I AM , I AM ONE. CHOOSE LIFE</p>
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		<title>By: Enrique Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6209</link>
		<dc:creator>Enrique Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6209</guid>
		<description>Many many thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many many thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Enrique Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-4/#comment-6202</link>
		<dc:creator>Enrique Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-6202</guid>
		<description>As always, well said and beautifully explained Bill!!! Many thanks.
There is one thing however that I will like to get your view, which is always very enlightening to me... :-)
When you said that the &quot;Unitive feels no need to be this or that, to achieve this or that, or to be in this or that state. He may act to be something or achieve something, but this is just “what happens” rather than the result of a need to get somewhere. This seemingly passive attitude, however, in its in-the-moment spontaneity, actually allows the Unitive to take powerful, effective, direct action. It’s as if, in not identifying with a separate self, the universe acts through the Unitive. Buddhists describe this by saying that doing happens, but there is no doer (the implication being that there are no separate doers, and that the real doer is the whole)&quot;

What happens with the concept of free will? Is there such thing? or only the ilussion of free will, and the more develop the self become the more aligned with the whole universe become and then the ilussion of free will gets lessened...  Could you please elaborate on this idea? It will mean a lot to me...(and hopefully to some other as well...)

FROM BILL: If there is no separate doer, then who is it who has free will? &quot;Free will&quot; is a way of thinking about things, not a real quality of nature. Any free from will is actually the free will of the whole, as the whole is really the only doer. Another way to look at this would be to say that all of &quot;your&quot; actions are really the result of the infinite number of interactions with and connections to everything else. Free will assumes that there is an agent who decides something separate from the whole. This is just not true. When you look at things from the perspective of a separate &quot;me&quot; it certainly seems as if there is free will, because a certain amount of &quot;why&quot; your organism acts is based on your nervous system, which has recordings of past interactions in it. These decisions, then, are also based on the rest of the environment, not on any agent that is separate from the whole and who makes decisions separate from any such connections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As always, well said and beautifully explained Bill!!! Many thanks.<br />
There is one thing however that I will like to get your view, which is always very enlightening to me&#8230; <img src='http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
When you said that the &#8220;Unitive feels no need to be this or that, to achieve this or that, or to be in this or that state. He may act to be something or achieve something, but this is just “what happens” rather than the result of a need to get somewhere. This seemingly passive attitude, however, in its in-the-moment spontaneity, actually allows the Unitive to take powerful, effective, direct action. It’s as if, in not identifying with a separate self, the universe acts through the Unitive. Buddhists describe this by saying that doing happens, but there is no doer (the implication being that there are no separate doers, and that the real doer is the whole)&#8221;</p>
<p>What happens with the concept of free will? Is there such thing? or only the ilussion of free will, and the more develop the self become the more aligned with the whole universe become and then the ilussion of free will gets lessened&#8230;  Could you please elaborate on this idea? It will mean a lot to me&#8230;(and hopefully to some other as well&#8230;)</p>
<p>FROM BILL: If there is no separate doer, then who is it who has free will? &#8220;Free will&#8221; is a way of thinking about things, not a real quality of nature. Any free from will is actually the free will of the whole, as the whole is really the only doer. Another way to look at this would be to say that all of &#8220;your&#8221; actions are really the result of the infinite number of interactions with and connections to everything else. Free will assumes that there is an agent who decides something separate from the whole. This is just not true. When you look at things from the perspective of a separate &#8220;me&#8221; it certainly seems as if there is free will, because a certain amount of &#8220;why&#8221; your organism acts is based on your nervous system, which has recordings of past interactions in it. These decisions, then, are also based on the rest of the environment, not on any agent that is separate from the whole and who makes decisions separate from any such connections.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/comment-page-3/#comment-5959</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 19:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.centerpointe.com/blog/2008/04/28/beyond-the-separate-self-the-unitive-stage-of-development/#comment-5959</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this Blog, it is difficult to convey these states in words, but you have done well to point them out, I certainly recognized the Unitive state. I have been blessed to have experienced the Unitive state of consciousness as described for a short while, on a few occasions. Although I am not there for the time being, or you could say I am not there for being in time perhaps, but I feel the it will return with a mass awakening. 

The most profound experience of Unity Consciousness occured In the early 1990&#039;s. I had a conversation with a psychic lady about her crystal collection, she lifted one particular crystal which turned out to be &#039;Sodalite&#039;, and suggested that I place it on my third eye area. Not long after I did this, I began to feel a pleasant sensation around the area of the third eye, and tingling feeling.

The sensation traveled down my neck to my heart, and then to my hands. It was then that I felt a shift in consciousness as though I awakened from a deep sleep, I was truly awake for the first time, with a real feeling of pure joy. I will try to describe the experience in the best way I can. I felt the complete absense of fear, a total peace, as I was &#039;One&#039; with everything. I looked at the psychic lady, and my mother, and I recognized myself in them, we were &#039;One&#039;, and I said softly, &#039;God&#039;. My ego had merged with pure eternal consciousness.

It was all so simple, and this was truth was literally staring at us all in the face. It felt like being told the funniest joke conceivable, and we were the punchline to it. The &#039;Oneness&#039; or &#039;Unity&#039;, was Unconditional Love, I had never felt such love before as I was Love itself. After about a minute the consciousness slipped away to normal conscious state, but I had never before or since felt so alive and so happy. 

For three days I felt a mild not unpleasant headache, in the center of my head but no side effects. It was on the third day that I was observing an old lady walking in the street, who I did not know, and suddenly as before the &#039;Unitive&#039; state briefly returned, seeing beyond her form I recognized her consciousness as though it were my own, and felt a ancient unconditional love for her. 

I had not meditated or done anything to initiate the state of Consciousness, or at least in this lifetime, it just seemed to happened almost by accident. I have been waiting for this state to return again, knowing that there is really nothing that I can do to bring it back as such. However I am at least aware that due to the information on this Blog and elsewhere, that its return feels imminent. God Bless, love and peace.

FROM BILL: Meditate with Holsync!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this Blog, it is difficult to convey these states in words, but you have done well to point them out, I certainly recognized the Unitive state. I have been blessed to have experienced the Unitive state of consciousness as described for a short while, on a few occasions. Although I am not there for the time being, or you could say I am not there for being in time perhaps, but I feel the it will return with a mass awakening. </p>
<p>The most profound experience of Unity Consciousness occured In the early 1990&#8217;s. I had a conversation with a psychic lady about her crystal collection, she lifted one particular crystal which turned out to be &#8216;Sodalite&#8217;, and suggested that I place it on my third eye area. Not long after I did this, I began to feel a pleasant sensation around the area of the third eye, and tingling feeling.</p>
<p>The sensation traveled down my neck to my heart, and then to my hands. It was then that I felt a shift in consciousness as though I awakened from a deep sleep, I was truly awake for the first time, with a real feeling of pure joy. I will try to describe the experience in the best way I can. I felt the complete absense of fear, a total peace, as I was &#8216;One&#8217; with everything. I looked at the psychic lady, and my mother, and I recognized myself in them, we were &#8216;One&#8217;, and I said softly, &#8216;God&#8217;. My ego had merged with pure eternal consciousness.</p>
<p>It was all so simple, and this was truth was literally staring at us all in the face. It felt like being told the funniest joke conceivable, and we were the punchline to it. The &#8216;Oneness&#8217; or &#8216;Unity&#8217;, was Unconditional Love, I had never felt such love before as I was Love itself. After about a minute the consciousness slipped away to normal conscious state, but I had never before or since felt so alive and so happy. </p>
<p>For three days I felt a mild not unpleasant headache, in the center of my head but no side effects. It was on the third day that I was observing an old lady walking in the street, who I did not know, and suddenly as before the &#8216;Unitive&#8217; state briefly returned, seeing beyond her form I recognized her consciousness as though it were my own, and felt a ancient unconditional love for her. </p>
<p>I had not meditated or done anything to initiate the state of Consciousness, or at least in this lifetime, it just seemed to happened almost by accident. I have been waiting for this state to return again, knowing that there is really nothing that I can do to bring it back as such. However I am at least aware that due to the information on this Blog and elsewhere, that its return feels imminent. God Bless, love and peace.</p>
<p>FROM BILL: Meditate with Holsync!</p>
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