FROM BILL: I don’t know what “this” is, and I don’t know what “deep Zen” is, either.

Thanks for a great blog post. I will be ordering the next level of Holosync, which I believe will help build my coaching business, as well as other areas of my life. Thanks for making a difference with your work!

Namaste,

John
http://www.coachcurran.com

Ken Wilber and Genpo Roshi seem exclusive in the discussion of Eckhart Tolle’s teaching with Bill Harris. They are undoubtedly elite individuals, but it was disappointing that they did not go into any detail of his meditative methods or pointing out exercises which are frankly not dissimilar to many of the practices that individuals at the Integral Institute have included in the ILP kit. Tolle’s books first speak to the ego in us and have us recognize it as an aspect of our awareness. He uses descriptive methods for us to see both the pathological and otherwise normal functions of ego where it becomes an object in our awareness like all other thoughts in meditative practice. Once we can clearly recognize and see it, like in the Big Mind process, then we are able to go deeper into our witness state and bring forth a One Taste meditation. Using his methods for present moment awareness are highly effective which in my own experience have allowed the awareness and recognition of shadow as it occurred. I was then able to later go and do the shadow work to get a clearer picture of my own projection. The difference is that previously, the shadows might overtake my thinking where I would become completely identified with them, while present moment practice allowed them to arise and be in my awareness without the compulsion to act on them. This I can say is “the power of now” as Tolle describes. Wilber and Genpo Roshi spend little time discussing how Tolle’s mediations and practices work in a transformative way and spend a great deal of time discussing how their own methods and ideas as more complete and Integral. Tolle is not associated with the Integral community and he doesn’t use that language or viewpoint for his teaching. This is perhaps why Wilber and Genpo Roshi feel the urge to bring their integral perspective to the discussion which is fare enough, however they didn’t discuss how Tolle’s methods can fit into transformative practice. I found the discussions a little disappointing in that those familiar with Ken Wilber’s and Genpo Roshi’s work learned precious little in relation to Tolle’s practice. Genpo Roshi focused on reintegrating the ego with the triangle illustration and warned against getting stuck outside the ego and Wilber focused on state experiences that individuals would experience at various levels in relation to Tolle’s “now” message (and that overall this wouldn’t have a transformative effect on humanity as Tolle suggests.) He states that without an understanding of developmental stages, Tolle’s work it was essentially handicapped. This may be the case. If one is familiar with AQAL then it is apparent that Tolle is not teaching from that perspective, but then again neither are Ramana Marharishi or Adyashanti or even Andrew Cohen who are considered important spiritual teachers and highly recommended in any transformative practice. While Wilber and Genpo Roshi acknowledge Tolle’s message overall, the discussions seemed to overlook a lot of the details in Tolles books and almost patronize Tolle as naive in his teaching of present moment awareness. Simply stated, integrating Eckhart Tolle’s methods into Integral Life Practice is remarkably simple and further enhancing to both the spiritual and shadow modules. Thanks to all. Many blessings.

FROM BILL: Why reiterate what Tolle has already said? I wanted the various teachers to elaborate on further ways to “get” the same thing Tolle is talking about, not go over the same ground. As you will see in my contribution to the course, I do bring up some of what Tolle says, in order to describe it in my way–as a way of hopefully creating a few ah-has for those who have trouble understanding what Tolle is talking about (and there are a lot of people in this category).

And, I’ll just say that there are a few things in Tolle that ARE a bit naive, if you want to use that term. He is not from any particular tradition, but rather had a spontaneous awakening, which means he doesn’t have a method. His pointing out instructions are not what he used to wake up, but rather come from his readings. He does understand them because he is in the transcendent place, but they are not tools he has used, as far as I can tell from his personal story.

He also is, in my opinion, stuck in the transcendent, the lower right of Genpo Roshi’s triangle. A good place to be stuck, but still a place of stuckness. MANY Hindu gurus are and have been from this place, even highly regarded saints. One of the best things about the Zen tradition is that it takes you past that, back into the integration of the relative and the transcendent. In the Hindu tradtions you can stay in the transcendent all the time because most gurus are taken care of by their followers, which allows them to ignore cause and effect for the most part.

Finally, Ken Wilber is correct that transcendent experiences ARE experienced from one’s developmental perspective, and this is an additional and important ingredient. One needs state enlightenment AND stage enlightenment (this is a powerful and relatively new contribution made by Integral theory).

That having been said, I (and the other teachers in the series) have great respect for Tolle. He is a very clear teacher and an excellent example of living in the transcendent and his pointing out instructions are well put and very clear.

The purpose of the course wasn’t so much to expound on his teachings, though, as to present OTHER ways of getting to the same place, the idea being that some will get it from Tolle, while others might get it from me, or Genpo Roshi, or Ken, or Saniel Bonder (or whomever).

Integral Life Practice is no doubt one of the most powerful transformational tools available to individuals seeking personal growth in all aspects of being. Having used ILP for more that a year, I can attest to its effectiveness in even this short period of time. One could only expect deeper awakening and realization with years of practice and study of those affiliated with the Integral Institute. I am also grateful to the work of Eckhart Tolle whose work I have supplemented into my ILP. It is for this reason that I became quite interested when I heard Bill Harris was going to be interviewing the heavy hitters at II in regards to Tolle’s work. I listened to Ken Wilber and Genpo Rosh who are both individuals that can only be greatly respected for their obvious contributions. Nevertheless, I can’t help but wonder why they are seemingly pointing out what is described the shortcomings or incompleteness of Tolle’s message while discussing their own work. If for example, you look at Andrew Cohen’s teaching you will find a quite similar messages to Tolles although Cohen favors words like “narcissism” and “authentic self” over Tolle’s “unconscious or egoic mind” and “conscious presence.” Why does Wilber give Andrew Cohen a ringing endorsement as the rude boy of spiritual transformative teachers, but suggests Tolle’s power of now message is not enough to transform people? It can be said that Tolle’s message is ostensibly simple but actually goes beyond this and points to the recognition of ones ego, pain body (shadow), and compulsive thinking pattern that arise in ones mind through an illustrative method. In this sense, we can easily see how shadow work and meditation can compliment and fit nicely into Tolle’s suggested practice(s).
Eckhart Tolle also uses a great number of effective pointing out methods to take you to the witness. Reading sections of Tolle’s New Earth and various sections of Wilber’s Simple feeling of Being ring very similar at moments while Wilber’s writing is as shockingly beautiful as Eckhart’s is simple. Where Andrew Cohen’s rudeness didn’t really have its desired effect on me personally, Tolle’s writing brought me face to face with my original face as Wilber would say (and as Wilber’s writing did momentarily). I found that Tolle, like Genpo Roshi, spoke to and coaxed my ego into letting Big Mind, One Taste, or consciousness spring forth although the state I experienced with Big Mind was far more brief and fleeting that the profound satori I experienced after reading through A New Earth for the first time. My thought is that perhaps the Big Mind process simply allowed for the ego in me too much for there to be a complete witness and then One Taste, although I can’t say for certain. It is also true that some writing will resonate with people more than others. Lama Suyra Das’s Buddha is as Buddha Does also fits nicely with Tolle’s practice as does all of David Deida’s teaching.
I think a study and practice of Eckhart Tolle is a great addition to the entire Integral faculty and that he perhaps could be asked to participate in the critique of his work. I have not yet identified the shadow in me that gets the feeling that these talks are all steered back at the participants and their take on transformation and less about the details and workings of Tolle’s books which are well worth examining in relation to ILP. I look forward to learning more. Many blessings.

I wanted so badly to attend the seminar with Genpo and Bill when it was in New York and was unable to get in. I am in so much need to go to this seminar as I am a cancer survivor and am struggling with my past.
Can you please tell me if he will ever come into New Jersey? He will sell out if he was in Atlantic City or Northern or Central New Jersey.
Please let me know and try to get closer to my home.

Sincerely,
Diane

I have been enjoying your blogs sooo much. My husband and I have been through several years of difficulty that resulted in us seeing that he was displaying the traits of Borderline Personality Disorder. You mentioned in your blogs that trauma at the preconventional stage can result in BPD. Can you discuss a bit more how being unsucessful at transitioning through the levels can result in a diagnosed emotional/mental disorder. We can see that the description of many preconventional traits are the same traits as found in a description of BPD. The oportunistic level describes a narcissist and/or a sociopath. Can you also describe what could cause a sociopath and what developmentally is the difference between a narcissist, a sociopath and someone with BPD? I think a blog like this where you describe mental disorders in detail would be amazing and provide so much help and enlightenment for people dealing with mental illness. Reading what you have written so far has been so interesting for me and my husband. It is helping us understand the roots of BPD and thus help my husband get past it.

Bill’s comment:

I have written a little bit in previous posts about pathologies that can develop as a result of failure to successfully make the transition from one developmental level to the next. Borderlines generally feel as if their boundaries are constantly being invaded, which is because they don’t have very good ones. These boundaries are generally created when we are very young, and if we don’t complete this process, even though we may develop in other ways (cognitively, for instance) we constantly feel invaded.

Another characteristic of borderlines is that they often idealize a new person in their life, especially if that person is kind or caring. But the slightest slip-up that reminds them of being “invaded” changes this person into an enemy.

Effective therapy would involve creating the clear boundaries between self and other than were not created earlier in life. Thiough I suspect that Holosync can help with this process, this type of work is beyond what we do at Centerpointe. My suggestion would be to find someone who specializes in working with borderlines and get into therapy. Borderlines are famous for not responding very well to therapy, because they have a pretty high fear level. With Holosync use, however, it’s very possible that progress can be made.

Bill
Thank you again!!!
Evelyn