Why everything I’ve said about Genpo Roshi is 100% true…
by Bill HarrisDecember 13th, 2007
This is a quick post to deal with some skepticism that has come up about what I’ve said about Genpo Roshi and his Big Mind process in a few comments you guys have posted.
First, some have taken issue with my saying that Genpo is the highest ranking Zen master outside of Japan.
Yes, Zen does have a system by which Zen practitioners and teachers are ranked. I am not an expert on the entire ranking system, but to become a Zen master is not a walk in the park. It took Genpo over 20 years, if my math is correct, during which he went through a lot — too much to include here, even if I knew and remembered all the details. Zen masters, particularly the Japanese variety Genpo studied with, tend to be a bit fierce, coming from a much tougher cultural perspective than Americans, and they do not lightly declare a student to have achieved a particular level in their practice — particularly that of Master.
Genpo has received the very highest transmission available in Zen from his teacher, Maezumi Roshi (who was Japanese, and a direct lineage descendent from the founder of the Soto school of Zen, a very famous Zen teacher, Dogen Zenji, who lived in the 1200’s. You can look him up on Wikipedia for more information.
This final transmission is called inka, or inka shomei, and is the final stamp of approval that a student is fully enlightened and is a master. To get to this point Genpo had to go through a number of stages of Zen traning and realization, including solving over 700 koans. A Zen koan is a formulation, in baffling language, pointing to the ultimate Truth, and which cannot be solved by recourse to logical reasoning, but only by a deeper level of the mind beyond the discursive intellect. Genpo completed koan practice in less time than any other student of Maezumi Roshi (it still took him, I believe, six years, though it often takes 20 years or more).
I have a LOT of respect for what Zen students have to go through, since I am going through a non-Zen version of it (since I am not formally a Zen Buddhist) under Genpo’s tutelage, and I can see how incredibly difficult it is (I would have said nearly IMPOSSIBLE, since that’s how it has always looked to me, had I not just spent 5 full days working with Genpo and had a MAJOR opening and cleared one of the major hurdles, while participating in his Big Mind process — an experience that completely changed me, and gave me a bit of “light at the end of the tunnel” in terms of the whole thing being possible).
Genpo (who is an American) is considered by many to be the highest ranking Zen master outside of Japan because he is a student of Maezumi Roshi (a very famous teacher and Zen master), he is a direct decendent of the highly respected Soto Zen lineage, and for years he has been the head of the largest Zen lineage in the world outside of Japan (though he just resigned from that a few months ago). And, since some of the skeptical comments came from Europe, I’ll just add that Genpo has a TON of students in Europe — more, I believe, than any other Zen master.
The other point on which there was skepticism was my saying that the Big Mind process allows you to experience states of transcendent awareness (and the insights that come with those states) something that almost always take decades to achieve, but which, with Big Mind, can be experienced in less than 3 hours. This is NOT exaggeration, nor is it marketing hype.
First of all, I did not say that you will become enlightened in 3 hours. Though possible, I suppose, that is not what is going on here. Let me explain, though, what does happen.
In Zen, or at least in the school of Zen from which Genpo comes, they refer to The 5 Ranks of Tozan — five stages of enlightenment. The first stage in one in which the student has learned how to access states of transcendent awareness–what has been called “Big Mind” (see Zen Mind, Beginners Mind by Shunryu Suzuki, for instance). The student at this first stage, however, is not permanently established in this state, and must “keep visiting,” you might say, through continued meditation or other means. In other words, this state of unity consciousness, or awareness of one’s Buddha nature, or experience of Oneness (or whatever you choose to call it) is available, but not yet permanent. The student knows this state, and knows how to get into it, but isn’t permanently there yet.
I’m not going to go into the whole 5 Ranks here, as this would end up being a hugely long post, and I’m not really an expert in all the nuances. The third stage, however, is one where the student IS permanently established in the transcendent. This third stage is what most people refer to as enlightenment. There is, however, more, and the fifth stage is the highest stage (the second and fourth stages are transitional stages, though each can take many years to move through).
Genpo describes this in a simplified way by referring to a triangle, saying that the lower left corner represents the relative world, where one does not have access to the transcendent (though it’s possible to have glimpses of it, as some people do without even knowing that this is what is happening). Such a person is in what Zen people might call the world of the separate self, the world of suffering.
The lower right corner of the triangle represents the transcendent, the place where one has realized that there really is no separate self, that the separate self is an illusion, an idea (I don’t mean that they know this intellectually, though, but rather than they are permanently in the place where they are experiencing no-self). The student in the first stage of the 5 Ranks, then, can visit the transcendent, but isn’t fully embodying it — yet. The student in the third stage, however, is firmly in that state, all the time. He or she is no longer a visitor, but rather a resident, you might say.
Zen would say, then, that a person could be stuck in the lower left of the triangle, in the relative world, the world of suffering, the world of the illusion of separation (which is, in fact, where nearly all human beings are). But a person could also be stuck in the lower right, in the transcendent. Not a bad place to be stuck, since from that perspective there is no suffering, everything is perfect, you are blissed out, peaceful, and so forth. However, from a Zen perspective, you can still be stuck there (a story I also don’t have the time to go into here).
And, finally, the real, full enlightenment happens (if it does) when there is an integration of both the relative and the transcendent, represented by going to the apex of the triangle — which is the fifth stage. Again, I won’t go into the details here, for the sake of space, and because that isn’t the reason for this post.
So, when I say that with Genpo’s Big Mind process you can experience states of transcendent awareness usually taking years or even decades, but do so in less than 3 hours, I’m saying that you can visit the transcendent (and in fact, through Big Mind, have access to it any time). Trust me — it’s a great place to visit. Just doing Big Mind once probably doesn’t qualify you to say that you’re at that first stage of the 5 Ranks, but after doing it a number of times you might very well be at that first stage (I don’t know what the formal requirements would be — I’d have to ask Genpo).
However, to even experience the transcendent at all — especially the way you do in this process — is a huge accomplishment. Buddha, it is said, in speaking to his disciples, picked up a handful of sand from the banks of the Ganges River and said that of all the grains of sand along the banks of the Ganges, “this many people” (the handful of sand), in all of history, attain that first stage. Genpo, then, by combining Western psychological practices with Zen, has discovered / created a way to allow people to experience the transcendent in a few hours, when it generally takes years and years of sitting in meditation — and, become established in that first stage rather quickly.
This is a revolutionary discovery. Genpo and I visited a lockdown facility for the most violent youth offenders in California, Oregon, Washington, and Alaska (most of which had IQ’s averaging about 70) a few months ago. These kids experienced Big Mind in just 45 minutes (which was all the time we had). These kids, as they spoke from the voice of the transcendent, said the exact same things the Buddha said when he spoke from that state of awareness! It was quite amazing to see this, I’ll tell you. I’ve seen quite a few other people go through this process, and I have facilitated it myself several times (for a meeting of the Transformational Leadership Council, for a group of Jesuit Priests in Ireland, at two Centerpointe retreats, and for a group of transformational teachers on a yacht in the Mediterranean), and (unless a person doesn’t really participate in the process) people always experience these states.
This is an incredible advance in spiritual practice, and Genpo is a master at facilitating it.
Also, many of the “voices” Genpo asks the participants to speak from are parts of you where you have what is referred to as unresolved “shadow” material. Speaking from these disowned or shadow voices heals the shadow material, which creates huges shifts for people, often healing psychological problems that had been plaguing them for most of their lives. And, there are also many key insights, as you might imagine, that a person experiences by going into the transcendent.
This is what I meant when I said that in this process you experience the insights that come with long-term Zen practice — and which generally take many, many years to experience.
This is NOT “enlightenment” in 3 hours, and I didn’t say that it is. Go back and look at what I said, and you will see for yourself. In fact, Genpo generally warns people that, as amazing as it is to experience these states of transcendent awareness, unless you do some sort of ongoing practice after this experience (Holosync, traditional meditation, or more Big Mind, for instance), after a while it will become nothing more than a really cool experience “you had.”
It is, though, a truly life-changing process, or I would not be telling you about it. There’s really a lot more to it than what I have said here, but it’s one of those things that you really have to experience for yourself in order to really appreciate just how potent it is. I will say that Ken Wilber and a whole lot of other HIGHLY respected spiritual teachers think Big Mind is one of, if not THE, biggest advance in spiritual practice in the last several centuries — and I agree.
And Holosync AND Big Mind together are REALLY amazing. (Genpo, by the way, loves Holosync.)
Here are two links you might want to check out from Wikipedia, one about Genpo’s Zen Center and the other about Big Mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanzeon_Zen_Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mind
One last thing, for those of you who branded my description of Big Mind, and what I said about Genpo, as some sort of Western over-the-top marketing. I ALWAYS tell the truth in my marketing. Yes, I am very enthusiastic, and I may use vivid descriptions of the benefits you will receive, but I always tell the truth. I describe the benefits in the most vivid, tangible way I possibly can, but always within the bounds of total honesty. My position is that the more people I can convince to do things like Holosync, or Big Mind, or some of the other things I endorse (nearly all of which, by the way, I receive nothing for endorsing) the more people are helped. One reason why Centerpointe is so successful is that when I say something, you can count on it being true, and you can count on the fact that I will go the extra mile to make sure you actually get the benefits I’ve described.
So, once again, if you are interested in what Genpo has to offer, and you’d like to see Genpo and I presenting together, come be with us in Los Angeles on February 9-10. The $200 early registration discount is available for a few more days. Go to www.centerpointe.com/bigmind to register or for more details, or call Kelli at Centerpointe to talk to a human. Her number is 503 906 6026.
I will post part two of my description of Piaget’s work on human development within a few days.
Be well.
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December 13th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Hi Bill, I’m now curious, wich level of Holosync is equivalent to this state os awareness you describe we can get with Genpo in 3hrs?
Brazilian kisses for you,
and the Holosync family ; )
December 13th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Thank you very much for that explanation of Zen masters, Bill. Now my curiosity is piqued.
December 13th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
How does meditating with holosync fit in with Zen and the five stages of enlightenment? What do you see as the unique benefits of holosync, compared with other meditative practices from the Zen, Taoist and Yogic traditions? If there are lines of growth that may be lacking from the holosync program, what do you suggest complementing it with for optimal, integral development?
December 14th, 2007 at 3:05 am
Hi Bill,
Thanks for another very informative post. One thing I really appreciate about your writing is the range and depth of content. I am glad people ask you tough questions because it always results in a really useful and interesting reply.
Thank you again, and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year.
Richard
December 14th, 2007 at 5:38 am
Thanks Bill! Still doing a great job in sharing wonderful info! Please keep patience, i want you around a while more!
December 14th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Hi Bill,
Is Genpo something “beyond” holosync? If so how and why? If not, why sould we pay such BIG BUCKS to attend the occasion you’re promoting? What’s the payback for us?
If “money” were no object, (that is, if I already had plenty of it), I would love to attend your event and I would do it in a minute. However, money IS a problem–I ain’t got none to spare! In fact, I’m going in the hole every month! That’s why I’ve “invested in Centerpoint” to help me get things right for a change. I’ve been doing Holosync for several months now, I’m on Awakening 2, disk 2 and have completed course 2 of accelerated change. Things “inside” are changing. So far not much outside. I still procrastinate a lot, drink too much alcohol, spend too much time volunteering to help others when I REALLY need help myself and still feel pretty depressed most of the time and afraid to feel/have the “go-for-it spirit of adventure that I had when I was young.
December 14th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
Hi Bill, thanks so much for the in-depth look at yet another valuable tool we can utilize for Spiritual growth. As with any task, the “right” tools are essential, but the knowledge and wisdom to recognize them is priceless!
Have a very Merry Christmas and spectacular New Year!
Gratefully, one of your newest Holosync Fans!
Christina Hope
December 15th, 2007 at 7:29 am
Hi Bill,
You talk about the experience of either “moving the universe” or “being moved by the universe”
David Deida uses the concept of a person having a masculine or feminine ‘essence’
Could this mean that there are two possible ‘flavours’ of enlightenment depending on your ‘core essence’ or can a person experience both? Or are they in some way the same?
Thanks
Chris
December 15th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Hi Bill
I enjoy your posts and the lively debate they stimulate. I’m really interested in Big Mind and I’ve just read “Big Mind, Big Heart”.
I’m interested in how to blend the two practices of Holosync and Big Mind. Is it as simple as trying to be in the voice of Big Mind all the time we listen to the Dive and Immersion? How does that fit with just letting whatever happens be OK?
I’d appreciate your suggestions.
Kind regards
Tony
December 15th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
Hi Bill,
Technically speaking, Genpo Roshi didn’t recieve Inca directly from Maezumi Roshi. Genpo recieved Inca from Bernie Glassman, who did recieve it directly from Maezumi. Glassman is Genpo’s older brother in the lineage. Maezumi Roshi did plan on giving Genpo Inca but he died before he could carry it out.
As the elder darma brother, Bernie Glassman Roshi would be higher ranked than Genpo Roshi, I believe, except that Bernie left the priesthood to become a lay Zen teacher, and to server as a model for lay Zen practioneers in the West.
December 15th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Don is right about this! Oops! And I knew this already! My bad.
The point, however, isn’t in this minutia about rankings, but rather that Genpo is incredibly potent and incredibly effective as a teacher. Working with him create incredible growth, as I can testify. –Bill Harris
December 16th, 2007 at 2:02 am
Hi Bill,
just wanted to say that I love Holosync (I’ve been using it for over 2 years now) and the Life Principles Integration Process, which has opened my eyes to a whole new view onto the world and the fact that you are always willing to share your knowledge and experience with us.
My life has improved so much already since I stumbled across Centerpointe and is getting better and better.
Thank you so much for all your efforts. I hope you’ll be around for a long time.
December 16th, 2007 at 4:10 am
Hi Bill,
I love your description of the triangle and how we get stuck in the left or right corners, really interesting! I have been doing the Holosync for almost 3 years now and I am sooo grateful to you for caring so much about humanity and creating this amazing spiritual development tool and all at Centerpointe for your continued support. I meditated in the Hindu tradition for years and didn´t receive the (permanent) changes I have with Holosync. I combine the use of Holosync with EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques- http://www.emofree.com) which have helped me deal with a lot of severe resistance and trauma from childhood, which wasn´t conscious but was very deeply embedded in my unconscious. Anyhow the combination of the 2 works amazingly well for me! Being a European (I am living in Sweden at the moment), I was wondering when you and Genpo are coming to our part of the world?
You would be soooooo welcome!! Thanks again for being you!
Melanie
December 16th, 2007 at 8:09 am
Following the discussion on Genpo, my post is one of curiosity rather than skepticism: Do enlightened people laugh? The idea of separating oneself from the effects of emotion is a bonus, but does freedom from negative emotions imply separation from the positive ones as well? Is the enlightened person characteristically stoic?
Thank you for any insight you can provide on this subject.
December 16th, 2007 at 8:39 am
great one bill,what a pleasure to read you posts.
frankly i doubt id have you parience!
December 16th, 2007 at 9:19 am
In my understanding, zen “enlightened” is not something we get, but something we are [or aren’t] … a way of “being in the world”.
“Before enlightenment, I chopped wood and carried water; after enlightenment, I chopped wood and carried water.
- Zen Saying
“No matter how many years you sit doing zazen, you will never become anything special.” Zen Master Sawaki, in Zen Master Dogen (1200-1253 ), Instructions for the Zen Cook
December 16th, 2007 at 9:27 am
I think your blog readers might benefit from a discussion of the differences between states and stages. Experiencing Big Mind as I understand it is an example of a state which is available to everyone at whatever their current stage of development. Experiencing a state can help you reach a higher stage if experiencing the state is accompanied by the work need to make the state a permanent trait (to paraphrase Ken Wilber).
December 16th, 2007 at 9:48 am
sounded very interesting to me from the very first info: I didn’t care, if those rankings are exact or not… I’m interested in the process and it’s effects upon me. important for me for a decision is this:
you said: we limit the number of participants. but you did not say to how many. please let me know: how many? Thanks Nikolaus
December 16th, 2007 at 11:47 am
Bill, thank you so much for clarifying. It truly helped me better understand where “all this” was coming from.
I live in Charlotte, NC. I really wished these neat seminars would come our way and not only in CA. I will explore his website.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Yes, yes, yes, yes…..cool information on Big Mind through Wikipedia. Now….speaking from our innervoices is quite an interesting approach. That is quite neat if we can tap into them and them into our consciousness. Make contact with each other. hmmm.. I like that! Really….just the thought of that already makes me feel a release. I would love my body to participate in something like that and welcome the exprience. I feel great about that thought!
I plan on attending my first Holosync retreat in 2008, I will certainly ask about it. Wow…..way kewlllllll.
Thanks!
December 16th, 2007 at 12:23 pm
Hi Bill,
Following on from a few other replies, iam very curious, and have been for a while, about the ‘level’ of ’so-called’ enlightenment which is achieved through using holosync.
I have been using holosync for 4 years and there is no doubt it has brought about some definite positive changes within me. However my initial motivation for starting this programme was an urge to know the truth of reality, as much as this is possible within a human body, beyond cultural conditioning. I am beginning to understand that Holosync has very little to do with achieving the ‘no self’ of enlightenment and more to do with aquiring a level of peace within the illusion of mind identification. Of course i have not completed the programme yet, so i cant talk from experience but any clarification you can give me on this score would be greatly appreciated.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
hi bill i,ve been reading most of your comments and i have a few questions,what is the advantage to all this high mind stuff,, when all you need to survive is keep your nose clean? there is a vast amount of repetition in most of what i,ve read,,and it really does not seem to go anywhere except cosistently ,,mind ,mind , mind,,I get a sort of rattling feeling when i read it all,,All this high mind elevation doesen,t seem to be improving any world problems..we are still stuck with all these idiots who claim to know the answers to all the problems ,,Yet the earth keeps turnig ,,We keep on killing one another,,and nothing much really changes
ALEX
December 16th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Hi Bill,
I’m interested in the Big Mind experience. Can you get a special discount for your ‘Insiders’ ?
Holiday cheer
Merrill
December 16th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
Hi Bill,
I have alway found your advise to be right on the mark, if some question you, let them do it. If they keep looking around at all the other stuff out there, eventually that will realise you know what you are talking about and treasure any recommendation that you make.
Cheers Rob
December 16th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Enlightenment is not a state. It is waking up to your true nature which has always and already been here. We have identified consciousness as being a body, mind, personality, ego, beliefs, concepts, memories. Enlightenment is to awaken to the fact that you are simply pure awareness manifesting in form. It is that awareness that wakes up to itself and not the mind, ego, personality that wakes up. Awakening is NOT liberation OF the me, but rather liberation FROM the me. This does not take place in time and so it happens in the NOW, never in the “future”. If practices produced enlightened individuals, there would be many more enlightened people than have historically been reported. Real transformation happens with the seeing through our false identity as a body/mind and seeing through all of our beliefs, concepts, thoughts without the necessity to change anything. The true alchemy happens in the seeing.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
This is good. People are asking good questions based on their level of awarness. I feel you get out of life what you put into life. If you want more, then put in more. So the real deal is you get what you put out. Nothing less nothing more, quit looking for magic. So for those that are reading this simple question what do you want?
Peace & Blessings
Baba Jahi
December 16th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Dear Bill,
Thank you for turning us on to this very effective method pioneered by Genpo Roshi — and of course your Holosync!!
I will look into it.
Who cares if GR is the highest ranking Roshi inside or outside Japan or even the universe? Will his method help us compost our shit or not? Seems like it will.
That is because IMO over the years most [90%] of what Bill Harris has recommended that I have tried has been what he says it is. Bill has a good track record.
So if some jerk comes along and says that there is some high-level, perhaps even integral, narcisssism happening with Bill Harris [yeah we know he hangs with Ken Wilber now] because even the title of this blog section makes it patently obvious. Who cares?
So what — it is not about THEM and what we may be projecting on them — it is about composting our shit.
I have not given any feedback to Bill for years who would want to waste time in a blog anyway?
See you in the compost heap,
much love to you all!!!
Art
December 16th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
Hi Bill,
Those that are ready to receive will understand.
I am intrigued and thank you so much for the information. I am visiting USA in March but cannot make it earlier for this event otherwise I would be there with bells on.
Kind Regards
Grant Feasey
Auckland
New Zealand
December 16th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Please say more about combining Holosync and Big Mind.
Thanks!
December 16th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Hi Bill,
Well this stuff with Big Mind and Genpo, Zen etc sounds quite wonderful. It looks like it could be used to get to 1st base quite quickly, which will be clear when you have read the rest of this.
However it also sounds like yet another system that takes one to “unification” “oneness” “immersion” etc and effectively stops there. This is NOT the final goal. Nor is it where we have come from and we are not God, nor are we non different to God, nor are we the whole mind. All these things are illusion. Your body is composed of trillions of cells, in a way each cell is a mini you, it a part of you and you of it, you are in one sense one. Yet the cell is not you and will never be you, even though it might communicate perfectly with you. Attaining “Immersion” “Oneness” etc (I did this at age 14 to a degree by the way)is nice.. blissfull blah blah blah but this self satisfying state is only the first major step towards true liberation. IF this is as far as you go, then at the start of the next Kalpa, you will fall down again to this sort of universe. You have to push through Bill, to the 2nd Stage. You have to make some serious realisations, one of which is “Oh my God, this isn’t it!” After which you will hopefully find your way to the 2nd stage……which will also cause you to stick if you are not very careful. Having transcended the undifferentiated Brahman, you can bring the experience back to this world or alight on some other in this dimension or one much higher. Whatever, you will have the power of a God, and will be able to create and destroy. Manifesting what you will. OR you can push on further and use the 2nd Realisation to grow to the 3rd and final realisation. When you have done that, you are home and will never have to return to this universe again. The cell will know its place and be freed from original sin……..the sin of thinking it is the All in All.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
OH and Bill, you cannot experience no Self. It’s a nonsense. In order to experience anything whatsoever you have to be aware of your own existance, you have to have apperception. Without that you cannot experience anything. It’s utter nonsense to say you experience no self. What might actually happen, is the self become’s over awed by it’s scale of seeming insignificance. This is very dangerous Bill, it can lead to Nescience. Which is precisely what is being described, the absence of “self” is death….and you can never expereince death because death is the absence of any experience. It’s a nonsense Bill, don’t get drawn into that crap. Some will say you cannot experience yourself as “seperate” from the All, in this state. But even to frame that question, gives the lie to it. Buddhists believe that we are all ultimately one being. If so, why when one is liberated are not all? Either because we are all not one after all, or because no one has ever achieved liberation in that way. Again it’s just a nonsense. There is a vast difference between being part of the all and being the all. You can achieve divine communion with the All and you can get overshadowed by the All. (I hate using the word All by the way, the word one should really use is God). As I said before this is not true liberation anyway even though it can be a very important path to it.
December 16th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
Hi Bill
Would you consider putting this upcoming seminar on dvd for
people who can’t possibly make it? I realize it wouldn’t be the
same effect as being there in person, but I’m sure we would get
a great deal out of it just the same.
Thank-you so much for everything.
p.s. If you have other seminars on dvd, I would really
like to know. thanks again…with gratitude.Louise
December 16th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Bill
I’ve read the book and completely understand the process. What I wonder is this why do you feel the need to defend Genpo in the first place?
I think a lot of teachers would do well to listen carefully to what Genpo has discovered. You see while I understand the majority of the teachers mean well, it is like the rat on the wheel constantly going in circles. So why does the rat do this? ahh, because he doesnt know any better. Simplicity is the best teacher.
Charles just so you know, if your still feeling depressed then mediatation is not the cure. You need to actually feel the emotion in your physical body. Go to the belief that created this pain and feel it in your body. Aknowledge that this exsists, then let it pass through you. Don’t relive the story, as that is pointless.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:26 am
I guess there is some general confusion about enlightenment.
NOBODY has ever been “enlightened” - Enlightenment is the exact opposite of that actually:
Enlightenment is actually the ABSENCE of any ‘you’ that could be enlightened!
Enjoy yourSELF!
December 17th, 2007 at 12:31 am
Thank you Bill for honestly reframing Big Mind as a way of getting a “really cool experience (I did it and got it indeed) which is not Enlightenment in 3 hours”.
And I must say I don’t believe this is “THE, biggest advance in spiritual practice in the last several centuries”. Any, from long ago till today,“pointing out instructions” (as Wilber would say) will do the same. In Europe Douglas Harding was doing a very good job at this and Charles Berner ‘s“Enlightenment Intensive” was quite powerful at that too…
And technically Big Mind is mainly using a rough combining of what NLP called “ Part’s Model” and “ switching referential index” Meta-Program”. Although this may be brand new and impressive to many people this is not “new in itself”, nor is it the most refined and effective way to use it.
Now, about “Zen ranking”:
Zen that is Zen is not Zen. If a Master is a Master, he is not a master. How do you mesure space ?
No matter what you become if you become it is not Zen. No matter how long it takes if it takes time, it is not Zen. No matter what you go through if it goes through it is not Zen. No matter what level you are at, if it has level, it is not Zen. No matter how deep or beyond you are if it is deep or beyond, it is not Zen. No matter how quick it goes, if it goes it is not Zen. If it is difficult or hard, it is not Zen. If it changes you, it is not Zen. No matter from what lineage, and how big or ancient that lineage, if it has lineage, it is not Zen. No matter how many students it has, if it has student, it is not Zen. If it has stages, it is not Zen. If it builds on repetition or training it is not Zen. If it is (instant) state, it is not Zen. If it is an accomplishment or a discovery, it is not Zen. If it is a practice, it is not Zen.
Who am I to state all that? Well, who am I supposed to be not to say it?
December 17th, 2007 at 2:52 am
I wonder how the Big Mind process compares to the Journey Process of Brandon Bays. Brandon claims that all her clients experience the” Source” in one workshop. But I know for a fact that not everyone doing her process (perhaps without her presence?) achieves this. Nevertheless, perhaps this a more feminine path towards a similar experience?
Also I feel that in general Bill and perhaps Ken Wilbur and Piaget etc miss out the importance of the mother in their descriptions of human development; the importance of relationship, nurturing, and love;especially for the infant.. Surely these are essential and it might be worthwhile for BIll to seeek out a few female teachers , psychologists etc to bring this element into the paths he is exploring.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:12 am
Actually I picked a poor example when I criticized you Bill for “ “Genpo is world-famous”…”highest ranking Zen master in the world outside of Japan”… “amazing Big Mind/Big Heart process” “these states and insights usually takes decades to achieve, but with Big Mind you experience it in 3 hours or less!” “…. because
1. It does not matter to me where Genpo “ranks” and I think he is a cool dude and I am grateful to him. 2. The delightful breakthrough that Big Mind process is…. IS true…… A step change indeed on access to transcendent being. I am an avid Integral Life Practice “student”.. follow Ken Wilber very closely, partake every month in the premier DVD/Audio package that Integral Institute sends out…. and use Holosync, but not as much as I would wish at this time. Indeed Big Mind IS effective/good and I have personally experienced it. My sincere apologies for perhaps be-smirshing something SO WELCOME in this world.
However, there is still something wrong, as far as I can see. Pushing the example above aside, what I see you do Bill, time after time, on almost everything that is passed for our attention is to take POTENTIALS (key word) of a certain process and truthfully describe them in the most emotional, enthusiastic and, I am sorry, over the top manner. Indeed it is true that those products COULD do that for you. But in ~90% (rough guess) of the cases they certainly will NOT because people will or are not able to work them further as is required. Hence the TRUE moral line is, in my book, is deviated from just a smidge (to be very kind). To conform to the TRUTH the words somehow need to take into account what I have just said – most people will be left unchanged time after time.
In Big Mind’s case… for the greatest majority the experience will become nothing more than a happy memory – and that is the TRUTH. For, as we know, states do not become traits but by diligence and application. But the “advertisement” did indeed say “states” so it begs legitimacy. Pity that glimpsed state will do you little good on it’s own – not stated, intimated or even hinted. I am sorry to say this - if your desire is to help as many people then know that some are helped but MOST end up disappointed. It is quite a thought !
I do love the USA but cannot help but wonder if this “marketing thing”, always professed to be moral of course, has something to do with being born there, into that system and a fish in water cannot easily see it’s wet etc…. I have come across quite a few Aussies, UK folk, Asians and others who “know what I am talking about”.
Bill I have done your full courses, you do rock, I AM grateful to you, marvel at your output and you DO go the extra mile to get the benefits described – it’s just that the description needs to truthfully hold the whole ball of wax and NOT just trumpet the POTENTIAL at full blast (repetitive, loss of cred, disappointment etc etc as previously mentioned). Yes you do adequately warn us of the hard work or no benefit in your 3 courses, but that is not good enough – the SELL statement(s) should inherently contain that SAME message, as hard as it takes.
How would these words look like, what would the descriptions of the product then be like ? They would carry the ENERGY of it’s meta sincerity – it would be like picking up a spiritual text, drenched in Kosmic habit. It would speak to our YOU. By comparison the old beat you over the head style I here critique will seem like the crass imitations they most probably are, subtly devaluing and condescending to their intended audience, of all people - the aspirant minded. Evolution will see this happen I think, but it will take big guts… and of course lots of time. Indeed this might mean initially losing some MONEY but if the Law of Attraction (a most unfortunate title I feel - inadvertently designed to fully fuel general Narcissism, already a big problem – Yay Attraction to ME!) is so, then surely it will work itself through ?
Oh a parting “shot”… I and many others know that you know (you have written) “The Secret” as packaged is incomplete as a message – as it does not emphasis the toughness of intentionality required to bring focused items into manifestation, the will, the knowledge, the discipline, the work….. As such, in my increasingly less humble opinion it seems, it is probably as harmful as it is helpful (to be kind again). Ken Wilber, for example, thinks it SUCKS big time and has attacked it strongly and directly – yet you still have an association with him, and he with you, surely a seeming discrepancy ? Also, you put your name to it on the Centerpointe site despite the known inadequacy, gaping hole incompleteness and therefore potential for misguidance?
Seems I play “Judas” here with a big ego (or really too small ego is the problem….I would constantly KNOW it stretches to Big Mind). Hope it prods something magnifique. Thanks for your bravery on having this blog.
Peter Omotosho
BRUNEI
S.E. Asia
December 17th, 2007 at 7:14 am
Comment on David Duarte’s post. Absolutely Excellent!
Ok, I will spill it a bit, just a little bit. From the sense of pure awareness of self is an eternal self conception. Like skin that cannot be shed but can be covered. We are what we think we are in the Supernal Realms. When we rediscover that eternal pure self conception then we have “found” ourselves. That is to say, we have self meaning and purpose.
David points out rightly that we tend to identify with all sorts of temporary states that are not us. Ie, body, mind, Ego, etc but that our true self lies beyond this and is always there. We need to uncover this, or we cannot awaken to our eternal self conception.
It is in fact the Eternal “Now” that makes awareness, existance possible.
December 17th, 2007 at 8:40 am
Boy, is it ever an education reading these comments. I have been using Holosync for about 7 months and the only real indication of anything happening is my golf game has improved dramatically. I attribute this to improved focus and concentration. The “zone” seems closer. However, beyond that, I keep hoping for some increased insight. I kinda get bored sitting for an hour every day listening to rainfall and gongs. I experience a little lightheadedness right after a session but otherwise nothing I can point my finger at. I believe and seem to know that I’m on the right track and it is much simpler than traditional meditation. Despite all this, I am sold and will continue into the foreseeable future. MY question is whether I should be experiencing something more?? I realize it is an individual thing and we all react differently. I hope the best is yet to come. Thanks for everything and have a marvelous Christmas and New Year.
December 17th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Dear Bill,
You mentioned that your are going throughg a process with Genpo and I would assume that it is for the purpose of further growth. Yet, You said in an earlier talk that you didn’t meditate much anymore since you completed the holosync process. What does that mean for those of us starting out with holosync? Is Big Mind a better even quicker method of growth than holosync or should the two be practiced in combination for maximum results. I would apprecriate clarification, as I’m sure others are also wondering about this.
Thanks,
Alan
December 17th, 2007 at 9:17 am
Bill,
I have to back you up on your claims about the Big Mind process. I have the Integral Institute ILP Kit which includes Genpo’s Big Mind DVD and it is amazing. It does give you a taste of the transcendent albeit just a short one.
Several of my close friends have walked away stunned by the process. Some of them are long time meditators and others don’t know enlightenment from a hole in the ground.
The fact that someone off the street can experience something with Big Mind is just incredible to me.
Best wishes,
Guy
December 17th, 2007 at 9:43 am
I found holosync through “chasing the secret.” After a month or so I started to experience the “witness” perspective. Seeking more, I found “A Brief History of Everything” by Ken Wilber and The Integal Institute. Shortly thereafter, Bill started mentioning Wilber, etc. And I also bought the Integral Life Practice kit….before Bill ever mentioned it. As part of this kit, a DVD of Genpo Roshi guiding the Big Mind, Big Heart process is included. And, without any agenda, I can confirm that I achieved self-transendence while watching this DVD. So, while sometimes I find marketing annoying, I do realize people need to make a living, and only make a good living by providing something of value, and without marketing no one would learn that they can get something of value, sometimes far more valuable than the money paid.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Dear Bill:
Genpo Roshi is indeed for real. I mentioned in a previous post that earlier this month I had the good fortune to attended the week long Rohatsu Sesshin at his Kanzeon Zen Center in Salt Lake City. The retreat was a traditional Zen Sesshin plus two hours of Big Mind every day. The combination was very powerful. Genpo Roshi truly is the down to earth person that you have described. He is also an exceptionally adept facilitator and teacher of the Big Mind process.
As anyone who was there would testify, there were some participants whom had miraculous breakthroughs. These were breakthroughs with some very deep and long term issues. Genpo Roshi led them down some very dark paths in their souls and brought them back free of their burdens. Participating with this greatly helps to uncover the same disowned voices in one’s self as what you find is that we are all very much the same.
Reading your excitement when describing Genpo and knowing you got very intense one on one contact with him, I feel right there with you. What a gift he has created and given to the world. Bless you for seeing this and sharing it. My doubting voice has spoken on some previous posts to you, but the only voices which wish to speak to you now are the voices of love, respect and kinship.
To anyone else reading this post, do yourself a huge good service by attending this retreat if you can. Being with these two great men should be an unforgettable experience. The money spent will seem trivial compared to what you will receive.
With great fondness and admiration,
Steve Wallingford
December 17th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
First of all I want to thank you Mr. Harris for your help with your CDs which have help me on my journey to self awareness. I too being a buddhist have made rather great discoveries about our minds. So, I have written down so, good points I have discovered about the different levels of our minds. So, I can share? Light and Sound Techniques
Stimulus is triggered for instance response to any situation in life or to what appears on our daily path. The images that appear during our wake state seem to dominate our actions at the moment of decisions. I have come to the conclusion that people that are violent or commit crimes are controlled by violent images of abusive parents, people, places and things that happened in the pass. So, children watching violent movies or experience real time violent situations at early ages seem to record images corresponding to the events.
Stimulus outside our selves today triggers the images that correspond to our violent or not violent behavior through the course of our lives. These images thus trigger the mind codes, which bring forward our false personalities. A personality is then picked by our mind codes that suit the situation at hand. The personality picked acts like our response to either protect us or hinder us. If our personality we have today is trying to protect us we have a false personality or facemask, which we wear.
We wear different facemasks to suit the occasions for instance we wear a facemask representing a holy good person that satisfies our church doctrines. When we go to work we wear our work facemask personality. Stimulus outside ourselves also representing law and order and government triggers a facemask personality that helps us live in harmony with both entities, which does not represent a real or true personality that fits our mold.
In Buddhism it is explained that we have ten lower worlds and ten higher worlds. If you look at ten negative emotions we come up with the ten lower worlds and ten positive emotions as ten higher worlds. I believe and have proven this to myself from experience the ten lower worlds is false personality created by mind. Our minds have developer tools to write codes and scripts. The mind receives so, much information about anger that it writes codes to create a personality to match the information. Within the anger personality exists multi personalities to match the different degrees of anger. The same holds true with the rest of the ten emotions. In Buddhism it is taught that all negative worlds have the other ten worlds within. So, if we are lucky to remove two negative false worlds or negative emotions, they as scripts can be rewritten by mind from the information inside the other emotions, which contain the codes. Mind also may pull out the eliminated negative emotions from the trashcan within mind and opens or reactive them again.
One can figure out why people have multi personalities and don’t know, which is their true one. Depending what suits a person’s needs could be the reason why some people go around with an angry face to ward off people that might intend to hurt them. People that are violent or evil could and do wear a few misleading false faces of a violent personality nature as a self-defense especially if they were abused when children. The point being is the mind writes and creates personalities that we think are protecting us when reality is false. In Buddhism we are taught that negative personalities represent disciples of evil demons. Because to the false personalities dominating our true thoughts, the light of truth will escape us through our lives with out us ever being aware of it.
To be cont’d on ten positive worlds or emotions as being false and misleading.
In this part, I want to speak on positive emotions as being misleading and false. Just like the negative emotions the mind’s developing tools create the positives. They are false personalities within us that express a misleading concept of what we are or have achieved. As false masks they represent our personalities in different stages of expression. Lets take a success emotion of happiness try to understand the mind has created a script and created personalities with matching masks and emotions to express happiness. I have experienced going deep into the mind and seen the different personalities representing positive emotions with voice and sounds to make the emotions real. Every emotion is results of chemical reactions that trigger the masks on our faces.
All emotions are based from our experiences as children to our environment or parental training.
to be continued!
After listening to the Centerpoint CDs I seem to think more clear and able to understand the hidden codes of our human minds. Mr. Harris I have made discoveries after discoveries of how to understand our minds. Below I wrote a few lines of some of my discoveries concerning how our mind codes seem to be operating.
By understanding the mind codes in the future, the blind will be able to see, the deaf will be able to hear, plus the dumb will be teaching in all our higher educational institutions around the world.
Thanks!
Sil Acosta
December 18th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Life is a gift.
It is an honor and a priviledge to be born human.
Our thoughts, feelings and body are gifts, given to us & meant to be our servants, not our masters.
Thoughts (mind) will never get us to Enlightment. As so elegantly presented in the Norse myth of Thor who, alone of all the Norse pantheon of Gods was unable to cross the Rainbow bridge because of his massive size & weight.
Experiences (phenomenology) will never get us to Enlightment. The world is littered with “blissed out” people unable to relate to other humans.
What will get us to Enlightenment?
I
Don’t
Know.
December 18th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Bill. I believe this is my first time writing you after almost a year of Holo-sync. I received your blog email this morning about Genpo and what you said and what others are saying.
I am part of the White Plum Asangha. My teacher, Musai, was ordained by Genpo a few years ago enabling him to perform jukai, along with other duties of a priest. I am one of a the first group to receive such. Both of these men studied and knew Taizan Maezumi.
As I said in the letter’s beginning, this is my first time writing you. I have had no reason to write you, until this. Like in the past with Musai, I have seen him in dokusan and have not a question. I am doing my best to live the teachings taught, as with you, Bill. There are just no questions! i have none! This does not worry me or make me think something is wrong with me or you and you and you… I am doing the best i can every moment.
One thing, Bill, I do so respect your awareness of Genpo and so many others along the road of this journey called life and yet more than…
I appreciate what you have done and how you have done it along with several others seemingly unrelated yet not. For me I see the result of so many peoples work, experience, and knowledge over kalpas, almost.
I look forward to meeting both you and Genpo, face-to-face, in February.
Gassho,
Katsu
December 18th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
I have not used Holosync as of yet, but the CD is on it’s way. I am excited about using it and understand the implications perfectly. i just posted this to answer back to some of the blogs from people who were using the product but still having trouble with their own personal realities. I would like to suggest a book called “The Divine Matrix” by Gregg Braden. I think this book, with it’s scientifically backed view of how our reality works, will back up the Holosync program perfectly. Also, I may be a little biased on this, but taking a look at some of the Pagan magic rituals will most likely help your customers “program” their reality to their liking. Except, in deference to Gregg Braden’s book, one should tailor suit their “spells” to focus specifically on emotion. Emoting our way to a most idealistic reality will become our race’s greatest accomplishment, and I think that Holosync may be a large part of that tranformation. Let you know what I think after I try the CD! Oh, btw, “Divine Matrix” works, but I rather like the sound of “The Great Tangle”. Tangle because that is just what “Matrix” is…If you take super silly putty and stretch it between every two possible connecting points in the universe…it’s going to make for one giant tangle. Blessed Be
December 18th, 2007 at 6:08 pm
I did a Big Mind workshop in 2001 with Genpo Roshi. Totally worth it. I have fallen off my practice and will reinstitute some study with the new book and my old tape from 2001. I would add that this could be done with or without holosync. But….I also have good intentions of getting back to my holosync practice. Just a huge Thanks to Genpo and Bill. Jane.
December 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 am
Dear Bill,
I would still like to hear from you in regards to the practice of Big Mind as it relates to the practice of holosync. In his book Genpo believes one can learn to practice Big Mind on one’s own and in fact should do so. Do you think this Big Mind practice is equal to holosync in terms of growth in happiness and enlightenment? Is it perhaps quicker even than holosync? I think there are many of use that would like to hear you comment on this.
Thanks,
Alan
December 28th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Hi Bill, You said, i believe on the Masters of the Secret Series that everything is grey……..yeah, yeah and yeah!!!!!!!!! I think ‘just’ making that shift in thinking may help many.
Genpo Roshi’s intention, along with yours with Holosync, is to bring us into a state of integration………..yeah again!!!
To me much of the New Age is focused on a non dualistic state and their interpretation of that is one that is all loving and ‘white’, pure. That, to me is their definition of unification that they all seek, but in seeking that, something is really missing there, they are trying to bypass the integrated state……and what that creates is all kinds of another kind of craziness!!!!!!!!!!!!!! More ‘magical’ thinking, even in those more grounded and much judgment!!!
Best, Lynn
December 28th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Dear Bill,
Regarding Frank Pfeifenroth’s post on Dec.17, I too question that I haven’t had any of the experiences that others speak of so movingly. I have been listening to Holosync for seven months and while I experiece a disassociative state and it relieves me of the effects of sleepless nights I cannot say that anything much has changed. Perhaps my focus has been heightened so that I can memorize piano music easier but otherwise, I haven’t experienced anything that resembles “increased insight”. I’ve wanted to address this concern to you Bill, but since I didn’t think I would receive a response I refrained from mentioning it.